RE: Proof of Brain - All ideas start somewhere (DCC Tribe Token Talk)
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Hi Sam,
Thank you for the invitation and tagging me. This may seem at first unrelated but I hope it becomes clear once you - and others - read to the very end of my comment:)
I had prepared a really long answer, but then decided to start from scratch (still long). In thinking about it longer, I personally come to the conclusion that quality always trumps quantity for me. I'm not good at bringing masses on board, nor does it suit my individual gusto. I am therefore thinking to be a mentor to few people here on Hive that I want to give time and attention to (I may change to other people after a while). It doesn't matter to me if it's a newbie or someone long-established, I'm more concerned with the personal connection and chemistry I perceive.
It runs away from me what seems to be often understood by "engagement" here. What is meant? Networking with as many people as possible? With as many topics as you can? That's not my thing.
Engagement for me is something very personal that may not happen more than a few times a month. I don't value engagement as using up my voting mana as much as I can, or including other channels (that I don't maintain) to look like a good user. It would be a dishonest effort on my part. I probably fall off the grid of respected marketing activities with that.
I once landed on the blockchain and what seems to fall completely under the radar here on Hive is that you don't focus solely on the virtual, but people can actively trade with each other with their Hives, horizontally and not hierarchically as seems common here.
Example: I once purchased a painting from an artist who was active here, and he sent it to me in the regular physical mail. I paid in steemit dollars.
I see too much dependence of the active people here on the community operators (no offense, I am also valuing the different operations), where the only thing that seems to matter is to compete with each other. My understanding of community is different.
Where people produce something or a certain ability is inherent to them, why don't they trade these products or services among themselves also through their wallets?
That's what I would call a marketplace.
I have forgotten this one myself over the years. I was once known here in my profession as a family and social counselor (my profession in my offline life) and there were situations where I could support my readers in personal issues, either publicly or privately. There would have been nothing wrong with wanting to see this form of service paid for in blockchain currency if a client saw value in it.
The issue I see as a long-term active on the chain is that my followership is not permanent, that those I followed have largely given up. The constant exchange of usership is therefore a problem, because I have to constantly strive to explain who I am, although you could find this out for yourself, if anyone even bothered to read posts older than seven days. It could be also a solution, for the constant changes in usership mean that none of them has come across what one already has published and it is new to them. They may even find pleasure in reading the former comments.
I'm way beyond writing eulogies and motivational posts about the Hive itself, if I'm honest. Which is not to say you agree with it if things are new to another one. I sometimes feel like someone here who has already finished school but is supposed to keep going back to eighth grade. LOL
By commitment and "hard work" I mean this, for example. Who's going to read it?
I proposed to POB drivers that I would find it a good idea to promote content already created, dating back months or years. Was it you, @scholaris or you @trostparadox?
It may be construed as immodesty that I think there are publications of mine that I could neither formulate better nor reissue in a different form. They stand on their own and could be used where there is a genuine interest in this content. I myself would be more than pleased if individuals drew my attention to their past publications, but that habitus does not seem to be present here. I feel like I'm in a constant race, which in the long run destroys my motivation and will to be creative.
Is it something dishonourable to re-promote publications that have already been released? Which might have not trended or do not even have any particular payouts to show for it, I find not only a pity, but a neglect of content and potential. And even if they were once voted in the higher range, I would not have an issue with that to be generous more than once from my side.
What can I do? Complain about it?
I could, of course, become active myself and announce that I will re-upvote and comment on original works by individual users that date back months or years. But would that entice anyone behind the stove if there weren't lucrative curations or hive dollars in the offing? Since I'm not a big stakeholder, I suspect I wouldn't get much of a following, which would make the effort to bring something like this to life a non-starter. I could be wrong, of course. So still have to think about it. Please, give me your insights and thoughts.
To sum up:
For newbies to drop some hive dollars from my personal wallet and pay them that way, as I can afford it (since my upvote can only show measly pennies).
For old-timers to support each other by upvoting and commenting again on their original posts made with love (enriching the newly created post with a few explanations of the old post). I mean, come on, what speaks against it to gain in terms of currency and awareness from something you put into a lot?
To enliven the marketplace by trading goods and services horizontally with each other, who in turn use the Wallet as their a relevant source of remuneration.
Sincerely greetings to you and everyone who payed attention.
I love the idea of featuring older than posts! Sometimes I come across one and read it - but the only reward I can give is a comment and !PIZZA and !ALIVE
!PIZZA
I like it, too. My archive is full of treasures (from my perspective), my readership changed and why would I not want these to come to new fruition?
Have you thought about making some of them into curated collections?
Thank you, I do this on rare occasions. Maybe did it two to four times, not certain. For a strange reason, this does not gain momentum, even though it takes a lot of time to make a collection in the shape and form I used to do them. Like the "continue the story" first announcement, I wrote a short introduction and placed to every single story the text and pictures in a manner, appealing to the eye, where all of my finished stories could be approached with one click.
The same I did with my scientific oriented posts, some long time ago. Like here.
Maybe I should open a group, called "Old-Timers" or "Archives revived"-lol
If that's what you meant by "curated collections"? If not, please help.
That actually wasn't what I meant. It's a good deal easier, thankfully.
This is what I meant, and using Peakd you can add each one in a click from your profile. https://peakd.com/ccc/wrestlingdesires/just-down-the-road-the-collection
I highly recommend not putting any mention of the post being a part of a series at the beginning, ever. I did that, and nobody wanted to read the post. Now if I mention it at all, it's at the end. But in general I'll just drop a link in the comments if someone actually read it closely enough to be curious about the rest.
thank you for dropping the link, I opened it through hive.blog (I don't use peakd). Though I still don't understand - you mean, when you want to promote older posts of yours, you just give a link by not mentioning it being from a series and that people followed the links?
It displays differently in Peakd. You just select "add to curated collection" once the initial post is made, then it's automatically added. They have a community for it too :)
And with my series, I really try to make each one where it could stand on its own. But some people will ask for the next part, or have a question. It's easy enough to give them a link to the collection, or even include it at the end of the post :)
You Are Alive and have been rewarded with 0.1 ALIVE tokens from the We Are Alive Tribe, and it's paid for by the earnings on @alive.chat, swing by our daily chat any time you want.
I don't remember speaking to you about the topic, but I DO remember reading about the possibility of re-publishing older content.
Sociel Media
We see republished content all the time outside of Hive. Old YouTube videos, for example, can collect earnings for years. Hive only allows content to receive rewards for up to 7 days after publishing. A limitation like this appears to draw ire from the community as there is time pressure on that article to gain funding. So, a seemingly great article might receive the value of a low reward with only 7 days being active. It's for this reason why I see engagement as being so critical towards getting your article noticed. You have time on other platforms.
Unfortunately, I only know what is the rule. I don't know the why of it apart from that it may be regulatory-based. I'm not sure, to be honest.
Potential Solution
I've been speaking to Hive Downvote Rewards about the possibility of republishing content I previously published. What Hive doesn't want is double-rewards for an old post. What I understand of things is that I can republish content if:
I'll have to get back to you on their responses, but I walked away feeling pretty confident about republishing. My original intent was to re-publish articles as a refresher to the community. There's no reason why I couldn't, for example, promote someone's past work to get them some advertising.
Responses to erh.germany's points
That's definitely one way to go. I do know that for introductory posts use of the #introduceyourself tag, at the very least, will give the new person additional Hive or other tokens they may not get on regular posts. Hive seems to give a pass to newbies which is understandable.
The "potential solution" I wrote of could apply here. Also, curation posts provide a function that seems to meet your point. When I've written curation posts, I delegated article rewards to them. I don't see curation articles as a good payout for myself. It's always an act of appreciation for me.
I've not thought about using the wallet as a source of remuneration. I don't actually know that this is done as my knowledge about Hive isn't as wide as I'd like. It's a good idea though.
!PIZZA
Hey scholaris,
thank you for your reply. I see some overlapping points in my answer to Sam and I ask you to read also, what I responded to her, so I won't repeat myself.
For me, it cannot be something "Hive does not want", as I see it. In the policies of Hive I nowhere can see anything against it, it's rather a form of etiquette, not a restriction. Hive is, from my point of view, also a self regulating system with aspects both, hierarchical as well as anarchical and everything in between.
Let's say you received in payouts 99 cents for a post of high effort and quality, would that be a double reward? I don't think so.
It can only be seen as a double reward when one rides on this principle and does not see the single case. In any case, if you would re-post an old article of yours, I'd be able to see the former payout (you would not just post it without revealing that it was already published on your blog, wouldn't you? At least, I would not do it that way - but even then, it really depends). If it received a payout in the higher ranges, I may not vote for it, but maybe inclined to read and appreciate the content itself. But most likely I would give an upvote, why wouldn't I, if the content is new to me, got my attention and makes me wanting to comment.
If a dumb thinks to re-post trash again, nobody will show interest or give upvotes anyway (excuse the curse). It may even be downvoted. ... The more I think about it, the more I think I could just do it and would have to take the risk that it might be frowned upon or even downvoted. Which would be a shame from my point of view.
That sounds like a really good idea. Though I have not fully understood. LOL.
Do you mean that when you write curation posts and you get payouts for them, that you give those payouts to others? That's a very good point that I haven't thought about enough. See also what I wrote about promos and ads in my reply to @samsmith1971 .
Let me ponder ...
.... Indirectly I did already as you said! I made an announcement, a starting point for a contest and then a winners announcement for "finish the story", the rewards were then given by me to the winners (I have not made the maths, if I lost, were even or won financially wise. Though that is not the most important aspect for me).
Duh, sometimes things are simple but I cannot fathom them. I am happy to have talked to both of you in this length.
I may have forgotten to consider other points of yours, but right now my brain says "no".
I completely hear where you are coming from and my view of the entire ecosystem is a bit ambivalent, to say the least...but ... I love being here and I love engaging and the quality of writing is pretty fantastic across a lot of the communities... some days I engage a lot across loads of topics and it fuels my curiosity and thirst for intellectual stimulation or human connection. Other days, I am tired and don't manage more than some upvotes and !PIZZA style calls to the bots to tip posts. I don't engage for the sake of it. If I don't have anything to say, I either say nothing or very little. It doesn't mean I didn't enjoy the post or find it useful, but the author may just have caught me on an off day... we all have them. There are some authors that I do enjoy more lengthy interactions with, yourself to name one of them ;-) as I genuinely feel that I learn and grow in the process and the philosophical and intellectual extension helps my soul to thrive. I personally see articles and contests where we are asked to discuss Hive, POB etc are there for a number of reasons: one to help provide 1st hand feedback and information to attract newcomers to Hive or entice them to stay long enough to have a good look around at what Hive and its communities has to offer, and two to provide insight to those who do have the power and technical expertise to effect change at a higher level and behind the scenes.
As regards tipping newbies, I tend to use bot calls, give encouraging upvotes where I enjoy posts, provide guidance and encouragement in the comments and run a monthly contest to hand out some tokens and provide a learning experience at the same time.
Regarding republication of old posts, I think this should be allowed definitely at no reward (as per @scholaris' comments) but also if it was at all possible to build the programming into the platform, I thing the reporting of older content for reward should be allowed if the content is say >2 years old, and if each user is restricted to reposting a limited number of older posts in any 12 month cycle. We don't want to end up like SKY TV where we are paying for all of our channels to be just reruns of old series. For those who have been here a while, I can see why they would not necessarily appreciate this. For newcomers discovering older material can be like finding an absolute gem (and I have certainly discovered a few myself!) and then it's like .... nooo I can't even show this author the love they deserve on this post from me. So what I do then is I comment, I call the Pizza and LUV bots to visit and if I receive a response to my comment, I upvote the author's response comment.
I don't think it is against the rules to republish an article if it has genuinely been updated and revamped for changes over time. I have seen this done in the past. Perhaps though it would be better to create a new post altogether and then cite passages from the old post and intersperse with all the new updated elements and revised commentaries / changing viewpoints etc? perhaps @scholaris could comment on whether this is an acceptable approach.
And as for a marketplace, I have already seen on Leo Finance where someone started a trading group and people bought into the group and paid fees from profits to the trader, and you can use Pizza tokens to buy physical goods in the Pizza store. So I don't think there is anything preventing market trading. Perhaps a new Hive community is required where physical and virtual goods can be bought and sold with Hive and Hive-engine tokens?
Thank you for your answer and references to my points raised. Appreciated!
To sum up your response, do I understand you correctly that
You express your appreciation for new and old users through tipping (Pizza, Luv, Beer etc.), running own contests and engage in commenting (so your and mine approach can easily co-exist)
You'd insert a threshold of >2 years as well as a restricted number of re-issuing postings in any 12 months cycle in order for the originator to receive both payment and awareness (agreed for two years - even though I can imagine one year, too - up for discussion for how many postings)
For horizontal trading with goods and services you take into consideration a middle-man or a community in order to bring more awareness to the fact that direct user-to-user trading takes place (I think the habit to trade with each other needs a push, indeed, I have forgotten it myself over the years. Not so sure about middle men)
You and I and everyone else can decide this on your own. There is no allowance needed from my point of view. It would be even strange to ask for allowance, when citing your own work in a freshly made post. I consider it not only acceptable but also sensible from the viewpoint of authors in general to make references to their own works.
I have a different view on this but this is probably due to my long term being on the Blockchain and the Blog. Any questions newbies might have, are already answered in the Hive FAQs, or, if one wishes for personal contact, can be asked from those who, through their reputation number and blogging activity can answer questions, or, if they cannot, do know people who can.
I hope not to offend you with my viewpoint, for I see speaking about Hive, POB and the like more as advertisement, once it primarily promotes the positive features and wants to attract new users alone. I have noting against advertisement, but I find it easier to separate it and make it obvious that it's an ad or a promo. (I find it in the meantime even strange to get paid for it and personally would probably use the "no payment"-function if featuring the positives alone - but that's only my perspective).
My professional background as a former PR-consultant for big brands may influence me, for Public Relations is a hybrid between editorial contents and placing indirect advertisements to an audience.
In PR incentives and rewards are highly used to attract potential new buyers. If it's not about promoting alone, the point you raised
may not be recognized as such if an article which concentrates on the positive aspects does not call for suggestions or proposals which contain changes in the code or etiquette.
I thank you for reading and answering attentively, as always, I can give the compliments made back to you.
hi just a quick reply this time ;-) re Q1-3 ...1) yes 2) yes 3) No middle man necessary...just thinking out loud whether people may want to advertise somewhere centrally with a post to get more exposure to their product... so there could be a community tag that could be used by folks to find specific types of trading offers. Rewards could be set to zero or people could show a liking for what is on offer and upvote but not buy at the time. So yeah I guess a marketplace community but really just a decentralised hub lol so that it makes it easier to find buyers and sellers. Re these contests being adverts and promotion. Most definitely they are. I thought that is what I was saying too ;-) There will always be things in any "product" or "service" that don't fit exactly with what one may one want but if the overall experience is a good one then there is no need in my view to mention the odd poor experience as these are to be expected in any aspect of life and are for each of us to navigate with the support of others if we happen to cross those bridges. I think I mentioned some of the weaker areas in my article already but in a positive way in terms of the support and dev I'd hope to see. I do hear where you are coming from though and you are right, that these platforms are not all sunshine and roses, but is there anywhere that is? I keep coming back for more though. The fantastic people I meet here and engage with are worth the oddbod that throws a wobbly😂thank you for chatting with me as usual @erh.germany your interactions and views are always valued 🙏
You are right, it's possible that I start to mix single posts with the overall impression I got during my time being here. All the praise wakens desires and also leads to disappointments. People come and leave in droves and I am probably reluctant to catch up.
Having said this, I leave it alone and fully agree that each and everyone decides on his own. For a strange reason I once in a while get totally annoyed, it probably has to do with the fact that this kind of promo receives from my subjective perspective such a high awareness and my ego probably shouts "meh! Can we start to have conversations apart from that and come to what ME, myself and I wish to thematize! HaHa! Busted myself! :D
You can do better :) lol
Smack! That was a kiss :)
ha ha right back at you 😘
I remember you bringing that up with me. If it is very clear that the content was previously published, I personally don't see a problem with that. However, I could see where others would consider that spam.
I will be making an announcement within the next week or so regarding the establishment of a new Layer 2 tribe / token and a call for input regarding community standards to govern them. Please check out the announcement, once it's posted, and feel free to contribute to the discussion about those community standards.