The Argument Over Bitcoins Value

Hey Jessaotishis

As Bitcoin continues to surge up in price people are starting to take note, people who aren't running inside the crypto circles and they're asking themselves, why is the price of Bitcoin so darn high. It's far beyond the yearly salary of a large part of the world, so how the hell can one person justify a year's salary after tax stuffed into random numbers backed up on a distributed database.

As a Bitcoiner myself, it doesn't make a lot of sense when you think about it like that, but I want to look at what is value and why I think it has value.

Toss out the ideas of stock to flow, and buyers and sellers and all that economic data we normally focus on, I want to focus on the value Bitcoin can and will bring that validates why its price will continue to surge in the coming years.

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Fiat money has no price discovery

The forex markets is one of the biggest markets in the world, with trillions being traded each day. Forex is not only a traders market but its use for those who have to travel as well as companies importing and exporting goods and services.

In a hard money system if you imported too much your currency would go down, and you'd curb your importing, the same would be for exporting, demand for your currency goes up, the price goes up, demand levels off.

When we moved to a fiat money system where anyone can create money out of thin air, markets started to function irrationally, misallocation of capital started to appear, currencies wanted hard pegs like the Hong Kong Dollar or the Yuan and so on, same with Swiss Frank and the Euro.

Having an uncapped money supply means you can jink the system, you can distort prices you can make artificial markets, and without price discovery, you cannot have true markets.

Bitcoin is price discovery; the price you see now is the price you pay. You can't create it at will to match demand, if demand increases prices skyrocket this slippage keeps markets more honest as people tend to not want to overpay for things.

Money was never this scalable

Apart from the Euro, most currencies only apply to their native country and can only be used there as legal tender, yes there are exceptions and the US dollar is often accepted in countries with failing currencies. Still, for the majority of the world, you're born into the currency you will earn in. That comes with certain restrictions, the value that is not your fault, but you are forced to navigate.

Now with Bitcoin, we have global money that can be sent across borders in an instant without a middle man at any time. As someone who has worked for foreign companies, I can tell you the pain of earning in Forex or having PayPal scalp a lot of your earnings through fees.

It's archaic and antiquated and was due for an upgrade.

Bitcoin has no industrial use or intrinsic value

I often hear this one from Gold bugs, that Bitcoin has no value because it has no other demand other than storing value. They say gold can be used in dentistry, jewellery and industrial components. That only serves as a distraction to the supply if BTC had industrial use, it's "hard cap" of 21 million wouldn't focus on only one thing which is preserving your value.

This is why I see Bitcoin as better than gold; it can only do one thing, protect your purchasing power and so far has done it pretty well.

Bitcoin's value comes in the form if it can store your wealth, it cannot be confiscated, and you can move it around the world as well as its growing acceptance around the world.

I can go to any country an exchange Bitcoin without issues, try taking your local currency to another country and see if you can exchange it at a market rate.

Bitcoin is energy stored

Bitcoin is not something that can be created out of thin air, and due to competition for network support through the miners, it's gotten harder to mint a Bitcoin. It's taking more energy and better technology to run the network efficiently. All that energy used to mint a Bitcoin essentially is the production cost of a Bitcoin.

Miners aren't willing to sell at a loss, and their profit margins are what help set the floor for the Bitcoin price. To create a new Bitcoin costs money, labour and energy if that doesn't give it value what does?

Fiat money used to cost money to create when it was largely printed, and the central bank pocketed the profit as this is known as seigniorage. The profits have become huge because only 3% of global money is physically created, and most are only accounting sitting on various databases of banks.

Due to this ease of money, creating it means fiat money has no value only belief, debt slavery and government laws ane enforcement.

Bitcoin is monetising the value of the internet

As an internet entrepreneur myself, I know the value of the internet, I've made my living on it for over 8 years now. However, most of the value of the internet is lost due to the money we're using having serious limitations.

Bitcoin allows us to be able to consume based on usage and not on pay walling services and charging a fee because you're a monopoly. I'll give you an example if you're bidding on keywords via Google Ads; Google sets the floor price, they match the bids, it's by no means a free market of bidding, it's all held within their systems.

If no one was bidding for a keyword, I should be able to set the bid like I would in any market. In a real-life example, an Uber ride is set based on Uber's algorithms and business needs, in Bitcoin, we could charge based on the expense and only pay for what you consume to the final centimetre.

This creates effect markets and thus provides a wealth of optimisation and cost-saving that can be passed on to the consumer. Its cost-savings are then passed on to to the value of Bitcoin due, the deflation of the service means you Bitocin goes further, giving your Bitocin more value.

Blowing hot air with the thin air argument

So next time someone tells you Bitcoin is worth nothing, its a frenzy it has no value, you can now point to several arguments as to why the view of Bitcoin being valueless is wrong.

Have your say

What do you good people of HIVE think?

So have at it my Jessies! If you don't have something to comment, comment "I am a Jessie."

Let's connect

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I read two articles that popped up in my Google feed earlier that were written with the exact arguments against BTC you mentioned here. It's got no value, it's only backed by a belief, not fundamentals, it has no use, it's gambling, stay away from it, it's a ponzi with no concern for environmental impact etc

Can't help but feel these folks didn't spend any more than 5 minutes (if that) on actually doing some research on it after probably feeling a little salty that they missed the boat. Either that or they are trying to shake weak hands so that they can then jump in!

Either way, you simply cannot just turn a blind eye to all the institutions getting involved with this and willing to buy up hundreds of millions, some cases billions, of dollars worth of BTC, to just dismiss it as "these guys are idiots, they are just gambling".

We're off to the races!

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You know when number go up everyone's going to have an opinion, I do like to listen to the arguments but so far it's been pretty weak. Bitcoin isn't a panacea but fuck me you guys fucked up the economics so bad that this digital asset is the best we've got and is exposing the fraud we have today

Lol nothing really changed for me, I buy my daily Bitcoin regardless of the price, who gives a fuck stack sats burn fiat, stop smashing like and subscribe and start smashing buy

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Yeah the arguments I've seen from Financial Times and Telegraph are nothing short of hilarious. Sadly, people still believe those opinion pieces. At least they have toilet paper should they need it!

I'd rather tune in to the Daily Luno personally, that brings me nothing but good news as I see the sats count go up (albeit a little slower than it had been in the past)!

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They say its rubbish but they bother to write about it and put the ticker and price up on the site or screen lol what a bunch of knobs, I don't mind all their readers just dump their cash in our pockets

23k here we come, FML its going to be harder to extra t a sat from a stone

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This is a very long read but quite educative and entertaining. Bitcoin is the currency of the future, only for those who can decipher what is taking place.

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Thanks, Its also just where we are now in the maturity of the life cycle

I don't think its the future of money yet, it has the potential for sure, but a load of work still needs to be done, so many focus on price but that's only there to fund the growth of the network. Scaling solutions like liquid, RGB and Lightning, as much as I like what they are trying are still up for debate.

I am not blind to its shortcomings.

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Good thoughts! "Stored energy", yes. I always thought, electricity can´t be stored easily, but apparently all were wrong :)
But the best argument doesn´t help, if people are brainwashed since decades. Some are not open for arguments, sadly.

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Yeah and how does electricity have value? If we can't touch or taste it like they make the arguments about? all elements aren't measured by what you can hold in your hand, it's such a silly argument. Energy comes in all forms, Bitcoin is just another form of stored energy, like all money has been over time.

I don't try to convince people, i only do what I think is best for me and keep my trap shut

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You can´t touch or taste radioactivity, so therefore it shouldn´t harm you, right? The same lame argument :)

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I just started thinking that they will put a larger tax on bitcoin to keep their Ponzi dollar scheme going. Pay it or go to jail! I could really see this happening. It will be kinda like real estate, you own it, but we can tax you all we want and tell you what you can do, like not being able to collect rent. I guess most people will just hide it or move to a more friendly place.

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I've already mentioned why I think tax is good for crypto if people want to cash out and pay the tax by all means, that's the price you pay for using fiat and there will be parts of crypto that require it yes, but this only forces those who are savvy to either find a geography that is friendly or never to sell and only leverage it.

I would much rather take a loan against my BTC then ever sell it

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Most people that say Bitcoin has no value that's because they don't understand how it work or what is it's use!

Also, why most people are afraid of it is because of the high volatility that BTC has. For example, back in March it's monetary worth was aprox 4k€ and now, in december it reached 19k€. Some people in my place sold even their valuable properties to buy BTC 2-3 years ago where its price was 17k€ imagine their emotions when it's price dropped at 4k.

Long story short!
Don't invest in something that you don't understand. It's also unworthy and very consuming when you try to make a point with someone that has already made his mind!

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I am sure there are plenty of stories like that of people thinking BTC is a moon shot, and even before that there were other bubbles like real estate, well it still is and so people continue, they chase the gains at the top and don't take the time to learn about whats going on

By the time things are in mainstream news its usually too late. I've been buying BTC since the drop from 20k down to 3 and I buy every month and told people to put in a little bit each month, no one did.

Now that it's over 20k people want to buy, lol I don't get people sometimes

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Lol yeah thats the mentality!
I've been telling people to buy btc and other good cryptos like xrp, zilliqa, xlm and others. Everybody made fun of cryptos. Soon there were news all over tv, magazines and newspapers they came asking me how to buy btc...

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Hey there Che how is the Mother City treating you, my town of birth and youth? Great to read your post as a fellow Bitcoiner. I only recently joined LEO so am catching up on the LEO side. Actually I used to live underneath Lion's Head in Sea Point as a youth.

You wrote a good and informative post here, much appreciated. Store of value is Bitcoin's industrial use, and medium of exchange, like any currency. It's obviaas.

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Its going as well as it can be, weathers great lol lots fo braaing going on, will head out to the beaches in the quite times

LEO's pretty cool, bunch of nutters as always but since you already a long term HIVE/STEEM'r you'll know the ropes

LOL @ Obviaaaaaaaas! I honestly wouldn't have got this deep if I didn't question why the Rand sucks so much, that's what pushed me down this rabbit hole

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Well where do i start lol.. Of all articles i probably disagree with this one the most. Alot of key points here i think miss alot.

"Bitcoin has no industrial use or intrinsic value"

Whereas i'm not a gold bug and don't hold any gold or feel it necessary. I prefer to hold land or real estate i use to grow food and hold water and produce energy. Bitcoin doesn't have any real value outside the concept of being a store of value and speculation device. Bitcoin is no more useful at a penny to $21,000. Of course meaning you can't do anything more with bitcoin at any price.

As far as it preserving your wealth pretty good thus far. Well yes it has done a good job but it's also duplicable. It's not really rare right? Like you can go and fork and create more versions of bitcoin. So really the only driving force behind bitcoin is people thinking they going to get rich. It's a speculation game. That can be proven because if you really look at use of bitcoin nobody really uses it lol. They just hoping they can unload on someone else one day and get rich.

"Bitcoin's value comes in the form if it can store your wealth, it cannot be confiscated, and you can move it around the world as well as its growing acceptance around the world.

I can go to any country an exchange Bitcoin without issues, try taking your local currency to another country and see if you can exchange it at a market rate."

Bitcoin maybe can't be confiscated but it can be made illegal. Most people don't want to be branded an outlaw and put in jail. They got families they probably just don't wanna go through that. So things can be done to stop the growth of bitcoin absolutely if the powers that be wanted to. The real question is why aren't they concerned yet aml and kyc laws are some of the most severe areas they go after to stop the funding of terrorist states etc., So i find it interesting they have been stand offish about cryptocurrency.

You also mention you can go to another country and exchange bitcoin. Exchange bitcoin for what? The rate of volatility bitcoin moves per day would make it impractical in any form of an exchange lol. So i'd feel a bit uneasy about exchanging bitcoin at a rate where i get far less value. Or exhanging bitcoin at a rate where i've given away so much value now had i just waited a day or a few hours i could have saved myself thousands of dollars lol.

You talk about bitcoin being valuable based on miners energy cost and not being wiling to sell at a loss. That also can show the ineffiency in producing bitcoin. When mining rigs get more efficient as they do. Energy cost come down dramatically as they do. Then that means then bitcoin value to produce it will come down. Not to mention bitcoin model many believe is wasteful see it as a problem for the future and its likely someone will just create some new algo we don't know about that doesn't have that problem.. making bitcoin even more obsolete in that sense.

"Due to this ease of money, creating it means fiat money has no value only belief, debt slavery and government laws ane enforcement."

I don't think this is true. I gotta pay taxes for being on land as everyone else to the government. So that means i owe a debt. Now the country is the collector of the debt thats their revenue. That's their business lol. Their promissory notes and fiat currencies say a promise to pay back. However the ability to pay back is based on citizens having to pay taxes. You're never going to be able to outright own land and be completely tax free i doubt. So then that means the government is solvent to a degree to make good on that debt. It's not just like i believe it and that's all there is to it lol. No. i gotta give up something of value for being on the land.

I'd also say when you mention the example of the Google ads algorithim or any commerce in general as to say bitcoin is the internet of money or something. Well i dont think it works good in any business solution to be honest. I think the allure of bitcoin is going to remain a tool for banks and instituttions and wallstreet. It's similar to the options markets. Bitcoin is a fun game to speculate to high heaven and lose alot of money. The practical utility is not much. Blockchain technolgoy can usher in a future of many possibilites but haven't seen what that will be yet per se.

As a business solution would be horrible i can take your example a bit further. Say i wanted to replace visa or mastercard with cryptocurrency. As many merchants complain that visa and mastercard cost way too much annually. So you could put something like btc in its place. However the problem is so many limits with cryptocurrency for vendor solutions and commerce would hinder it so bad people would prefer to go back to visa and mastercard.. Why?

Well one thing is you can't do chargebacks lol. People wont like the idea they can't get their money back if there is a problem. So bitcoin is better as a store of value unfortunately its likely it cant be the best future model for it.

So it's not a question of bitcoin having no value at all. It's a question of does it have significant value. My belief is that bitcoin has value as a high risk speculative device that is an interesting tool to help banks and companies who wish to fight inflation with what is probably more useful as a gimmick or way to pull in new interests and products for banking. I don't think its going to be any of the things that many of us think.

Now that doesn't mean bitcoin wont continue to go super high. It can go all the way to $50k no problem probably. The problem is its not possible for bitcoin to be a future useful model. It just isn't and more than likelyl wont be. So i'd predict some speculation as we can't really gauge the value of this thing because its mostly based on speculation and you can't really analyze the value. So i'll say this and conclude.

As many problems as hive and steem like products have and they have many. They still value wise make more sense than bitcoin. For example: it's possible for me to come to hive and look at the user base and probably pretty accurately calculate the value of each account. I could probably get pretty darn close on the actual value of what hive would be. You can't do that with bitcoin because bitcoin doesn't have really any use its just driven by these narratives that don't pan out in application just in the idea this thing can go to any price.

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LOL, your comment is longer than my post :P

Your land argument I get that, yes you can use your land to extract food and water, but without capital, you can't do it effectively, how do you convert that excess value you create into something longer term? An avocado takes 12 years to produce but it cannot hold its value once its produced it needs to be consumed or the value is lost.

Bitcoin is energy + time storage, time is something we don't think about, but it has value.

If we take all the machines needed to mine Bitcoin, all the energy, all the skill, labour and time, that value doesn't disappear it's reflected in the price of Bitcoin.

All value is a thought abstraction, it didn't have to be BTC, if we all agreed oak trees was money, so be it, BTC just happens to be it for now, could be something different in 1000 years.

Forking

As for forking, I would disagree there too, you can today download EVERY single URL on Twitter or Facebook, set up a server farm or buy a metric fuck tonne of cloud space and copy the site page for page, do you think people are going to go to your site?

No, the market has already made a decision, they want Twitter and Facebook and actively ignore any other options, does that mean people aren't using tumblr no, but its so small who cares? Same with forks! I don't see why people shouldn't have their own coins and exchange between one another, I have no problem with how others measure their value and want to trade, in the end its all accounting.

Just that BTC will be the premier version of that system.

Trading in another country

I would rather take my BTC and sell it for whatever price I get in another country to start over. If you leave a country due to wealth confiscation, you normally get there with sweet fuckall, they can freeze your accounts and take your gold. BTC is mile ahead of anything else, so what value are you going to take with you?

They can take your land from you too, I've seen it happen here, nothing is sacred, unfortunately, BTC is the best option we have to take some value with you. I didn't say its full proof but 0.1 BTC to start over is a lot better than fuckall

Price of miners

I don't see this as a problem due to competition, the instant the margins get bigger and the efficiency improves and the cost of energy comes down more miners come in to compete and maintain that demand for BTC.

Taxes

IF you think money is only real because it's taxed by all means mate, more power to you

Bitcoin of now is not the Bitcoin it will become

You're basing a lot on what Bitcoin is now and I get it, arguments make sense, I personally don't give two shits about what Bitcion is now or I wouldn't;t buy any of it. I care about where it will be in the future

Do invest in land because you like the land now, or what you going to get out of in the future?

Do you start or invest in a company because of what it is now or what you going to get from it in the future?

We're all making bets, this is my bet, I don't really think any alts can take over, the market has decided. There will be niche products people will find value in and that's fine.

What I want is a way to continue to save and that's what BTC offers me. I don't even care if you don't agree, its not your money its mine. I am not telling you what to do with your money or time.

!ENGAGE 50

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Haha, what's funny about your comment is i often times get very little upvotes because the community says i don't write at all. I just do videos. So funny that my comments maybe can count as posts lol. So you gave some interesting thoughts here on btc.

"how do you convert that excess value you create into something longer term? An avocado takes 12 years to produce but it cannot hold its value once its produced it needs to be consumed or the value is lost."

Well after the energy is released .. this food energy. Yes it's extinguised and it its not used then correct. Maybe through a preservation process some crops can be extended a great deal longer etc., but you're right its a shelf life that value is no longer there at some point in the future.

I think one big issue with bitcoin was that it kinda started to feel like tulip mania throughout alot of its life. Speaking of agriculture growing tulips and the tulip mania that started in the Netherlands had some similar traits as btc. Similar to btc there didnt't seem to be any practical use for it. The same argument of work output was used on tulip mania. As to say certain species of the tulips that were painstakingly cultivated in certain ways.. " namely alot of work was done" fetched obviously a great deal more value than the tulips that weren't as refined to the same process.

Although theoretically based on that tulips did preserve value. It held value based on those fundamentals. So i don't feel work should necessarily create a certain labor to output ratio. i feel the work should only be in relation to the market and what someone is wiling to pay for it in a competitive way. So work how we define it to me isn't necessarily work. I think work occurs in the practical sense of how the market extracts value. I just don't know if the conclusion of burning alot of energy equals the best way to secure a network holds up.

I don't know i kinda like the idea of a democratic vote process similar to what we get on steem and hive minus the justin sun debacle but maybe in the same direction. Where less miners represent a bigger group. Where the power is delegated away from a central authority and that smaller group represents that larger group. So im saying there that bitcoin miners don't represent me at all. They are a big part of what happens to the network not representative of me and thats why i feel dpos systems atleast get that part right.

So this idea that because bitcoin expends so much energy and cost so much to make to me doesn't really fulfill a useful or most efficient system or one that operates at an optimal level.

Forking

"As for forking, I would disagree there too, you can today download EVERY single URL on Twitter or Facebook, set up a server farm or buy a metric fuck tonne of cloud space and copy the site page for page, do you think people are going to go to your site?"

I would say that forking may be the last way the market can voice its opinion on a product like bitcoin. Yes you're correct we're at a point in our technology where pretty much any platform can be cloned or forked. Hence is why you have the Hive blockchain to began with. So based on your logic Hive shouldn't exist. Hive exist because the market went we dont agree with the core protocol. We didnt agree with Steem or we probably wouldn't be here.

So i think forking is good and especially in bitcoin. Yes you're right we can copy anything and the only thing that keeps products ahead of one another is brand and network effect in those cases. What keeps them ahead is evolving and changing to the end users needs. All of which bitcoin does none. Bitcoin unlike facebook and twitter doesn't evolve. It doesn't change the code for the better or worse but other projects do.

Even the first major fork in bitcoin. Bitcoin Cash i'd say by any stretch of the idea was a huge success. Bitcoin Cash is worth billions of dollars and has market awarness all across the globe. Sure it didnt defeat bitcoin yet. I would hardly classify that verdict over yet. I think one of the achilles heels of bitcoin is the fact it cant change. Some say its sound money and it should never change. I disagee its a network and networks have to evolve and change to survive.

So forks improve the market in my view. They allow a competitive product to say we can bring a better product. That's how we evolve. You first have to be able to first and btc can't. So although some forks are smaller i agree they could addres a much bigger need like usefulness. if say someone who uses bitcoin cash in some developing nation. It's going to be more relevant to them to have some bitcoin cash member on the ground doing workshops and helping their local vendors set up payment modules or foundations or what have you. All of those things will be of more value to local people and many that really need to use crypto because of a collapsing financial system where many are unbanked. So thats not going to be useful to them in a sense they need like a currency because btc is a crappy currency. It's a good speculation device. So its a wallstreet toy or fastly becoming one. I believe bitcoin will be around in crypto for a long long time. I could see bitcoin being in the top 10 20-30 years from now. Just this novelty collectable or something. So if its just a question of if bitcoin can make money. if it can maybe at time moon prices. Sure it can do that. The only issue again its not more useful at any price as to what it does. So you could have several versions of bitcoin and generally how most markets work unless this will end up being something totally out of any relationship to that which i find unlikely as some things in markets seem to be universal. Let's just say if btc remains on top like forever as the premier crypto does'nt get flipped. Nobody figures out its just way better products designed to do better what btc does. Like for example i'd consider bitcoin an accidental store of value. You read Satoshi's White paper lol.. This is a failed digital currency basically. Now all of a sudden some venture capitalist that wanna make a fortune off this thing because if they can make money and move the risk to someone else they dont care. So i feel thats what they did.. they went oh make it a store of value and problem solved we just speculate we can make any value of money imaginable lol. Doesn't need significant use. Doesn't need to help alot of people. Just needs to be not only high risk but highly speculative.

I'll try to limit my information i dont want you reading papers in the comment section because although this is complex subject let me just keep it simple. so its possiblre bitcoin can float on good branding for a long time i agree. So i'll skip all the across border trading conversation and taxation as we kinda touched on that .. i'll just say about taxation nothing really means anything system wise or political if it can't be enforced. So people can jump up and down about they have rights or that certain things should work certain ways. However if you have no way ot enforce it its just like you have rights at all. if you're hungry and you say you're free. Well you're only as free as the ability you have to feed yourself lol.

So i'll move on from that and conclude with this statement you made

"We're all making bets, this is my bet, I don't really think any alts can take over, the market has decided. There will be niche products people will find value in and that's fine."

Well there is nothing wrong with making calculated decisions.. I absolutely believe bitcoin will be flipped in the future. Again doesn't mean people wont make alot of money thats not what im saying .I'm saying there is no way possible to have a long future with btc. Thats not going to happen for many reasons. Alot of what bitcoin will depend on in the future are the millenials. i just dont think bitcoin even fits the millenial mindset.. There will be systems that do store of value better because they are created from inception to do it. There will be products that address teh energy and waste issues that btc has better.. It's going to be very difficult for the millenial base to accept bitcoin against better alternatives. So its not a problem to believe in whatever you wanna believe in. It's just a matter of for informational purposes we're always better informed with all the data or most. I think bitcoin is a niche product. I think its mostly own by governments and wallstreet and banks.. and rich people. I don't know who Satoshi is or the Satoshi group for all i know they could be russia or the cia. I do know everyday the general population owns less and less of bitcoin how is that decentralization. So will all be interesting to watch. Thanks for your reply.

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Thank you for your engagement on this post, you have recieved ENGAGE tokens.

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Not all people understand what Bitcoin is. From somewhere on the Internet. Almost out of thin air, something intangible suddenly appears, which suddenly has a price. and a great cost. More fiat money. It's like a plane -why it flies and doesn't flap its wings.

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I am pretty sure there are plenty of examples in history like the plane, like the move from horse and buggy to cars, like electric motor vehicles. Yes it came out of nowhere, yes its digital but machines have been with us for decades making things easier for us.

We're just finding better ways of organising the world and the way we do things, fighting innovation is a losing battle

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Why is the price of Bitcoin so darn high?

It's not.
I just bought it for $1.
Unit bias bad :D

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LOL point taken, but isn't that the same with so called crypto investors they rather want 100 XRP than 100 Satoshis, lol I'll take the satoshis, once you understand hard cap, you won't have such a hard head

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people who buy xrp due to unit bias dont even know what sats are

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Nice write up - I agree 100% that BTC is better than fiat, but one main observation:

FIAT might be printably by central banks, but surely it's just as easy to print new crypto on new blockchains - doesn't that have a similar deflationary effect on the value of all crypto, just that we haven't realised this yet because the space is so new so why Bitcoin in particular?

I'm convinced part of the reason the price of Hive is so stagnant is because we've doubled the supply - to investors, Steem and Hive are basically the same I'm sure and Steem probably looks a lot more attractive to the Asian market.

I'm not sure btc is monetesing the power of the internet - other tokens are more set to do that and will probably eat into BTCs value, I'm sure we're all banking on Hive to be one of those - but ETH seems to be a good candidate too.

All in all though this is a nice write up, certainly a good choice of question!

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The way I see it is all these other tokens can't have economies without BTC. If you tried to launch STEEM without BTC and try to build fiat to steem payment rails it would be almost impossible with such a tiny network, BTC has laid the foundation and value flows through it.

All alts are Tethered to BTC and are to me basically rehypothecation of BTC, if I sold all my HIVE today, there wouldn't be enough liquidity to give me the value it claims to have tokens are great experimentation and are needed and yes we will tokenise a lot of things but it will always be tethered to BTC

BTC will also have smart contracts, and tokens we see OMNI and RGB launching soon and BTC's second layer will grow to absorb more value. The bigger BTC becomes the more capital can flow into things like lightning.

I don't doubt there will be niche tokens in the future just like there are millions of websites, but there are only a few important sites that really matter to the world, same with BTC

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I've heard of OMNI and the prospect of more stuff being built on BTC, but don't know very much about it TBH - but isn't ETH kind of streaks ahead there?

Also I would have thought that the more crypto I can buy for FIAT the less dominant bTC comes - I can buy and sell Hive for dollars on Huobi already, and so many other cryptos too.

I'm certainly glad I've bought into BTC - having diversified with my Steem shitcoin money - but I'm sceptical!

I'm still learning however!

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Yes you are right ETH is miles ahead, that's their use case, I think BTC is like a stick to alts, so if ETH and alts create something the market wants, BTC will absorb it, then it becomes the standard, so the alt needs to continue to innovate, chasing a new carrot, giving us more options and BTC is just the floor that keeps rising

I don't see them as competing I see the entire market working together in competition with each other, its weird but it works.

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Very well written and well guarded arguments. All points are legit as outlined. I think the most important argument in favour of BTC is its ability to be used as a hedge against the depleting cash as demonstrated by companies who recently got into the BTC buying frenzy. Other values will be demonstrated once BTC gains its momentum. By the look of it, we will be seeing a lot more ATH and adoptions going forward. I am buckling up.

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I am actually not a fan of the frenzy time to be honest, a lot of emotions, a lot of people are going to get hurt as the ones who were here before know whats going to happen and others think they getting paper rich. It does a lot of damage to perceptions of crypto, but on the other hand it moves more capital to those who have conviction in the system.

It's going to be fun non the less, I've already secured some positions and waiting for my exit values, don't let greed get the best of you

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Thanks for letting me know what could happen :)
I do not have any trading positions. I am not sure i have all the details required for it. I will see this bull run through and see if I can make any quick profits.

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Very good insights @chekohler
There a lot of different factors driving this rally.
Lot of people who were always so negative about crypto have started using or at least paying attention to it now.
This is really complicated system if you don't know the basics.
Thanks for this great post.

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It's no doubt complicated because we're still in the beginning stages, imagine trying to set up your own email server back in the day, now you just login to a site and create a gmail.

We're here early and it's not always going to be like this, yes there's opportunities to benefit financially if you're patient and learn how these cycles work, but to me this is just what Bitcoin is now, it needs to be this to attract people, in the future it will look a lot different and more boring

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Intriguing article and plenty to think about but feeling a little tired right and not much energy to get any thoughts together so . . .

I'm curious as to what happens if I simply comment "I am a Jessie." 😂

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I'll let your brain have the day off to marinade in it thoughts for a bit

LOL you become one yourself, a title not easy to shake once you claim it

!ENGAGE 30

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if anyone says btc doesn't have a value i will show him the price first and then your post :p

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LOL so I take it you'll have to save this post and pull it out when the price starts going down again, it can be your secret weapon when people hate on your precious BTC and cheer it going down like its a good thing

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hehhe i already have bookmarked!

i tend to do that in any related subject that i know i am gonna debate :P

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I often hear this one from Gold bugs, that Bitcoin has no value because it has no other demand other than storing value. They say gold can be used in dentistry, jewelry and industrial components.

I love the argument that bitcoin has no industrial use or intrinsic value, why would anyone buy gold because they think more people are going to want to bling out! Bitcoin has more value than gold because you can easily transfer it, sell it, etc. Most people who say negative things about bitcoin are just jealous no-coiners who wished they bought a long time ago!

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LOL yes no-coiners or closet coiners trying to accumulate while trying to get others to sell. If You really thought Bitcoin is so shit you wouldn't even talk about it, I mean I don't care much for apple or tesla so I don't talk about it, I don't pay attention to it.

Why would someone be so annoyed with what others do with their money and on top of that if you think you're right, wouldn't that mean you benefit when people buy Bitcoin and you don't? Because we're going to lose all our money and you will win, so wouldn't that make you happy enough to not care what others are doing?

I mean for me I don't care about stock investors, I do what I like and I don't tell them the markets going to eat them alive

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People are greedy and jealous but if they make a good decision they'll tell you to jump aboard, i.e. shilling their own idea/stock!

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It is "funny" to see how much people (without the least background on the subject) continue the same arguments to go against Bitcoin.

Nice post, @chekohler.

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I am happy to hear the other side of the argument because I don't want to feel like I am too biased and miss something but they have to come up with better arguments, I would actually love it if someone dropped different ideas for me to think about.

Other than a major bug in the code or governments trying with everything they got to take it down, I don't see this thing going anywhere its here to stay no matter if you have a good or bad opinion of it

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Basically I agree with what you say, my only doubt in the medium to long term future about the BTC is that it will happen when central banks switch to their own cryptom currencies which can basically function as the BTC in the sense that they send themselves immediately and unexchangeable, "stable currency" values. At that point I do not know how the BTC will react, it may become a permanent store of value or be replaced by country-backed currencies.

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I don't see a problem with CBDC's they won't all be created equal, some may be programmed not be swaped for bTC but then all you do is swap it for a CBDC that does, so if I have USD I by CHF and then BTC

Stable coins are also coming to BTC next year with OMNI you can check my previous post on that, so you'll get different types of stable coins, backed, CBDC, algorithmic and collateralised and it will all be used for different reasons

I don't see that as a threat to BTC at all

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we have global money that can be sent across borders in an instant without a middle man at any time.

We can send the money without any middle man some time this is dangerous too.. it is big invitation for the illegal activities too...
Dont take it otherwise just a thought....

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Yes, we're never going to stop people from doing bad things that's impossible, I honestly don't care what other people do with their time and money I am not here to worry about others, I can only take care of myself

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We are social persons so for our day to day activities we interact with so many peoples so the activities of other (good or bad) always effects us in other way....
So we cant ignore the ither dark side of crypto currencies....

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