Level of engagement on Leofinance: Beast

in LeoFinance4 months ago

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I haven't seen anything like this before. You might think I am exaggerating but I am not. It reminds me of the time during the previous bull run where hundreds if not thousands more users used to hang around and either produced / consumed content. Of course Steem's price hit an all time high back then and so did everyone's upvote value.

Hence accounts who used to reward thoughtful comments had a decent number of comments under each of their posts. Note that the rewards used to be 75% - 25% in favor of the author...there were no penalties and strange curves...If one decided to reward a comment with 10 cents then 10 cents it would be. Now due to that strange curve a 10 cents upvote for a comment = ~5 cents aka wasted voting power...

That's one of the reasons engagement was slowly dying. Not on Leofinance though...

Engagement on 90%+ of the posts created via leofinance site should be at all time highs and keep increasing day after day. If you don't believe me just have a look for yourself. Even the posts sitting on trending don't have as many comments as an average post under the financeleo tag.

Ever wondered why? I can think of a reason or two...

Firstly, it has to do with the most radical change implemented, which is the transition to a linear curve. Plain and simple. If your upvote value is 2 LEO and you cast a 100% vote to a post or a comment half of it goes to the author and the other half is your curation reward. Simple as that.

Secondly, there is no such thing as 5 minute auction window on Leo. Whether one casts their vote on the first minute or 6 days later it's the same result. Half for the author half for the curator.

Thirdly, having a good reputation in the community is probably the most important thing. And @khaleelkhazi earned it. Not only he is a respected figure but also a hard working guy who has a vision and who is trying to bring value both on Leo and on Hive. And when that happens it doesn't go unnoticed. Hence many people decided to heavily invest in Leo because they saw the value he's trying to bring in the ecosystem.

And finally because those who have invested in Leo want to "protect" their investment and also they want to see it thrive. And it will. Therefore they prefer to reward a well written and thoughtful comment than the post itself. And when I say reward it, let me explain to you what I mean. Earning 3 - 10 LEO tokens per comment is the new normal around here. Now imagine it 2-3-10 or even more times per day...

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I for one reward every single comment on my posts at 10% of my VP. That's around 0.9 Leo tokens. As I said before that's 0.45 leo for the authors which I want to thank very much for commenting btw. BUT...some Leo whales usually appear and also upvote those comments just like I do on every post that I manually curate. And just because their stake is huge the result is comments with potential payouts up to 15 leo. Which is crazy...

Money / more tokens isn't the most important thing. The most important thing is that your/our tokens to have a higher value. More time spent on a post...is reflected on search engines...on Alexa ranking...This is how a project grows.

15 LEO = 22 Hive. aka 7.5 leo for the authors or...11 Hive.

People spend hours to write a post and don't even get close to those numbers. And don't pretend to be a saint and you are here just for the cause. We all like extra money and profits. That's totally normal. Now imagine this multiple times per day...

So now you know...

It would be interesting to see a post from @dalz comparing comments on posts submitted through leofinance vs the rest. Buddy? Doable?

Have a good one people...and stay safe.

Source
Cheers!

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It's good to see a consumer driven model functioning so well. Hopefully at some point Leo has far more consumers than producers. Things work better when producers are dedicated to producing and consumers are dedicated to consuming. Of course you'll always have folks who play both roles, but dedicated consumers should outnumber producers by a huge margin, since that how this industry works. You know you're on the right path then. Paying dedicated consumers takes things to a whole new level. Staking to support and consume only. That's always been the missing element on Hive. That's also partially why the token can't find investors. The people simply don't realize content is a product, and that product typically generates plenty of revenue for both producers and the platform it sits on.

It looks like somebody finally understood what you're preaching for years.
Such a small change in rules and such a big difference.

I'm sure you can produce some stuff on an economical topic and throw some art our way at the same time.
You're definitely not lacking creativity, hehe.

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Years and years and years and years. I repeated it more times than that. So whatever, it works on a small scale. Works far better as things grow.

Unfortunately, many want to take what works completely away from the Hive token. But that main token or the token that rules them all is necessary. LEO and the next successful community, as well as all the others in the future can be wrecked in an instant if left standing on their own. Hive token needs to be there functioning as it does in order to provide a layer of protection to consumers/investors, producers, the platforms/communities operating on second layer tokens. One wrong move, bad publicity, cancel culture. That's all it takes to send people running away with their money. Tank the price, not as many producers will produce, leading to fewer consumers, community dies. With Hive working as a backup, it's much easier to recover, since all is not lost. It's also far easier to get the business up and off the ground with Hive token involved as well. Without it, basically every community will have to start from scratch, and that headache is completely unnecessary, creating an environment where most fail.

That's the rushed version of worst case scenario spinning through my head if they strip Hive token's current abilities. Of course Hive also loses out on much of the demand driven by the consumers across thousands of communities as well, which is a fancy way of shooting yourself in the foot I suppose.

Anyway... Hopefully people wise up.

Hopefully people wise up

Some 4 years later...and we keep praying for the same thing

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All true. Yet all this changes ...these curves...penalty zones. All it did was to ruin engagement.

Leo's user base is still small. As time goes by and new people jump in it can only grow exponentially. Step to the right direction are being made daily. I have a feeling that it's a matter of time before this thing goes BOOM! Hopefully...

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I remember being heavily in favor of the 50/50 cut and the free downvotes (which were meant only to tackle instances of abuse and negate exploitive behavior). The end result in my mind was a better consumer experience, since they're not sifting through trash and spam, and they're being rewarded for enjoying the good stuff. Then they threw in curves that penalize people, and used downvotes to penalize producers for things they had no control over. Why discourage success? Why penalize a job well done? And why penalize the consumer when they play the most important role? Nobody on Hive likes presenting their work to the sound of crickets. Gotta have butts in the seats, and those butts in the seats typically pay at the door.

I have one regret. Sold most of my LEO when it seemed like Steem Engine was about to fall with Steem due to the hostile takeover. I thought that was the end.

I suppose another problem is the fact I don't typically produce content under this category, so I can't really join in on the fun. Kinda homeless on the platform now, in a sense. Oh well.

I suppose another problem is the fact I don't typically produce content under this category, so I can't really join in on the fun. Kinda homeless on the platform now, in a sense.

Homeless? Rally? Bud you're a one man show...You should actually create your own tribe and show everyone how it's done...ever thought about that?

Or even better, like oldtimer said combine your knowledge and send our way shots of economic creativity

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I have thought about that, plenty of times. The size of the local market always held me back and I'm glad I considered that because it has only shrunk further since the thoughts first crossed my mind. Now with rumors spreading about dismantling content on the main layer/Hive, I'm left with an uneasy feeling. Content(could be anything) can be found on a network(community) and the network is found on the service provider(main layer). Take the service provider away and what are you left with? Confusion. I'm confused. The money is supposed to trickle down from that main layer. That's the front door every single consumer needs to walk through before they make any other purchases. Without it, I don't even know how they're going to get inside.

Awesome!

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Truly

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It's nice to see authors that upvote and reward commenters, this is so special to watch smaller accounts get some tokens to power up. Folks like me that don't post a lot can still be a valuable part of the community this way. Keep up the good work and keep on spreading the word.

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The platform needs both folks like you, and folks like me. You're probably more into curating and not much about posting and I'm a dedicated content creator on the chain for almost three years. There's a purpose for every one of us in here and that's great. A good social media platform needs curators to reward authors, but also content to be curated, and to make it shine and attract more users it definitely needs interaction. We kind of have all these ingredients and a ton of growth potential.

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We kind of have all these ingredients and a ton of growth potential.

This is so true, I cant wait to see what 2021 brings. This platform keeps advancing so fast and new things are added at super speeds!

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Many are not able to write up long posts but almost anyone can put together some comments.

If they are applicable, they should be rewarded.

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Folks like me that don't post a lot can still be a valuable part of the community this way.

Exactly what leo needs. Even if you don't like fancy finance related stuff you can still be valuable. How great is that? Best form of distribution...

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Most websites are doing away with comments, I won't use a web news site that doesn't let you comment anymore. Yahoo finance stopped and I had to say goodbye. This is the future and needs to be embraced if they want to survive.

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Just shut up and gimme my 0.9 leo,

GIMME.

GIMME GIMME GIMME!

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I only have 0.10 and we're making it 50/50 :))

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Yes sir. Sorry for the delay

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Thankee kindly sir (doffs cap).

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It sure is amazing. I'm still waiting for nodes or whatever the problem is, so I can go back more than ~4 days in my comment history. All because I want to take a deeper look at my earnings and a few other things, and use that information in a future post.

I have been lucky lately with rewards on my articles, but without the big votes from onealfa on my articles, I am sure that I would've earned more from commenting than from my articles during the last 7-10 days. Initiative 10 with taskmaster and onealfa paving the way has had an amazing impact on the overall engagement across the entire platform. It's super cool to be part of this and to see how well things are going.. I am really grateful and I appreciate the awesomeness.

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Eventually API calls will be fixed soon and you'll be able to find all the data you're looking for.

You deserve it bud. You're everywhere and that's what LEO needs most right now. Believers and people who don't jump in for a quick buck. 12 months from now...mark my words.

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Thanks, I appreciate it! I'm just trying to do things I believe in and stuff I enjoy. LEO is awesome and I happened to join (become active) at the perfect time it seems. With manual curation and shortly after I arrived Initiative 10 was brought to life.. So it's just a wonderful and awesome coincidence sort of.. But I am here to stay.

I look forward to the upcoming changes and the coming months. The engagement level will be totally insane in a few months if it continues like this.

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Figers crossed mate.

Ooops. Santa came early :P

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Haha yeah! onealfa is awesome actually. I didn't know who he were when I became active on LEO and suddenly I got those juicy whale votes and reblogs early on. That's insane amount of encouragement. Especially as crypto & finance related content isn't my cup of tea. I'm not really familiar writing that type of content, so that was a boost of confidence when he dropped by with votes and reblogs. A few days later, we had Initiative 10 up and running and everything started to feel as it's supposed to be, and exactly what I've been longing for on both Steem & Hive for a long time. Engagement and manual curation. That truly motivates people.

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That's the best part. As I said to another guy even if you don't fancy leo content you can still be a really valuable asset of the community. As a commenter.

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I definitely agree with that. I love leo content though, but I'm not really used to write about those specific topics, so it's a learning curve. It's fun and I enjoy every single minute I spend so far though, which is a good thing.

However, it seems like it will take some time for manual curation to really kick in. Both when it comes to people curating comments, but also articles.. Which seems to be more or less the only thing I am not super-excited over. I do know that auto-votes will exist for as long as Hive exists though, so it's not that I'm surprised... But I wish we only had manual curation. That would give us even greater results in terms of engagement etc.

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I don't get why Hive needs to have all these curves and auctions for curation and also can't figure why the ones making them a reality haven't thought about the outcome for such hiccups. More bots, more automation, less engagement, weak community etc etc. With LEO is quite simple 50/50... and we're good to go focusing in true development and growth, on engagement, SEO that mentioned about and marketing which is highly important. You know that saying the devil lives in details... Too much details for curation on Hive ever since I can remember.
Bottom line I like LEO, so far I'm happy with my experience around here, it has a lot of perspective especially during this current bull market when everyone is going to talk cypto, and the single thing that I am afraid of, as written in my last post, is spam on LEO. Hope we won't have that same problem as Steem had back in the days when everyone was trying to make a buck on the chain.

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Hive's approach is much different than Leos. There are different incentives or goals for many of the influencers. Wish it wasn't that way but it is.

A big part of the focus is on the trending page. That stems from Dan's original believe about finding quality content. It obviously did not work out that way which leads to tinkering.

Leo is not really focused upon the trending page, that I can see. Instead, with the idea of comments and rewarding them, it is engagement and quality of posts. Ultimately, posts are rewarded and do form a trending page but I am not sure many care about it. They have their favorite authers, feeds, and other areas of interest that pulls them away.

For me, I spend almost all my time on the recent page.

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I am doing the same. Wasn't a fan of the trending one since the good old times of Steem. There's quite a lot to explore on the current posts page.

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I don't even look at the trending page on Leofinance either. Of course, the way the site is set up, we can see it but I glance at it and switch to the newer stuff.

It is where the action is as they say.

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I have to admit the same. Some of the best content I found was from the recent ones. Quality control has been super well done on LEO compared to other places.

I never cared much about trending page on Steem. I rarely checked it. It's mainly about personal feeds for me. I follow the authors I like and it almost creates these mini-communities with frequent engagement around groups of authors.

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Hopefully there's enough downvote power to eliminate spam and plagiarism.

I don't get why Hive needs to have all these curves and auctions for curation and also can't figure why the ones making them a reality haven't thought about the outcome for such hiccups.

I wish I knew mate. Really

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We know why. Just follow the money. It's all written on the blockchain.

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I think the content here is better. You can see the effort. Plus, leofinance is centred around finance, cryptocurrency, etc these are things people find interesting in this sphere.

I'm mostly here searching for articles about the next big crypto idea, coin, or platform . Asides wanting to make some extra Leo, I want the extra financial knowledge.

My leofinance feeds >>> hive feeds

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That is the power of communities and why the initiative, for Hive overall, is important.

Ultimately, what happens on Hive should be icing on the cake. The real value is being created in the tribes, or at least should be.

Leofinance is the first one to truly break through on that end. How do you think a community for, say, Real Madrid or the Los Angeles Lakers would be with engagement?

It would be increible if there were a few dozen fans of those teams on here with their own community.

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I believe reaching out to existing communities outside the hive ecosystem will do the platform as huge good. Collaboration and even migration to hive/leofinance would do hive and such communities a ton of good. Thankfully, leofinance isn't just about crypto, it's about business and finance and our reach can be huge if we get past some huddles like account creation (which isn't much of a difficulty as it used to). Once the barrier of entry is reduce completely and signing up on leofinance is as easy as getting a Twitter or Facebook account that will do this community a ton of good.

Keywords: collaboration, outreach.

We are doing good already.

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My leofinance feeds >>> hive feeds

This is called success. Massive one really.The more you dig around here the higher the chances to find articles of your interest

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This changed curation curve sure is a game changer. I must admit that it's just another reason for me to hang out more in this community ( this dino likes to roam around these fields ). It's insane that I'm earning more on comments these days than on my blog posts but it sure motivates me to engagement even more :<)

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It does build upon itself. And you are not the only one who is motivated to make more posts and increase engagement.

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It sure does and it's nice to know and feel that I'm not the only one. Energy works in waves and it seems like we're on an upward wave again. Feels good!

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So everything goes according to plan :P

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I have been a pretty active engager for most of my 3.5 years on here but this sure helps. Just wish that all Hive communities would use this reward structure, as I feel like I'm now adding less value to the blogs of non LEOfinance community users, where in the past I would engage with many people out there.

i Usually come here and coment a lot when i have time, the other day i give me a great and amazing surprising with a lot of comment votes, but, well some times we have luckly and other not, well it is amazing that leo are do the hive work.
people need to return to comment in a great post but not necesary for reward maybe do this because the post have interesting informatión that need to be comment,

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It is often hit or miss. The point is that those who keep making comments are helping the ecosystem, along with themselves, move forward. Engagement is another factor starting to separate Leofinance from all the other tribes we see.

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And what a great separation that is!

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Yes it is. So basic in nature but a way for us to separate ourselves from all else that is taking place.

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thanks a lot, yes we need to make hard work to give feedback to great autors with amazing post and inportant contents to make better to us, specially when are oportunities for make invest, yes, leofinance are separated from other tribes, specially for the target that they uses finances are very very specialiced topic not everyone could make a post with interesting informatión that are very usesfull for all users.
Thanks a lot for your feed back sir.

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My hope would be that, down the road, Leofinance is not so different. I wish that most tribes pick up the pace and follow suit.

As a HIVE holder, it would be great to see a dozen "leos".

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I wish every Tribe owner would implement these changes that make Leo so unique. Would be a win win for everyone

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Focus on providing feedback to the author and everything else is an extra!

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Yes sr, fortunately here is my favorite tribe because i have a former in finance, and investment like Value at risk, little investment, benchmark, portafolio management and Tracking Error and here is an amazing place to learn more,
this is completely diferent to my target post in plants, for this reazon people say what are you spoke about finance but you post about the plants, but man, i know a little about finances too.
Thanks a lot for your responses, yes we are here to give feedback to people some times i received great surprises because you not have idea about who is the autor, only see the post and get comment and get surprises that is a great autor,
as i said with little time to espend you only see the great post read and comment.
Well we need to continued with this great work.

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Bro/dude/dudette thanks for this freaking post. I'm knew to the blockchain blog world, but you're breakdown made all of this make more sense and I don't have to rely on so many assumptions. Much appreciated my guy!

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Pleasure was all mine. Thanks for the kind words mate. Much appreciated

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It is quite great to see such a level of engagement, but I wonder how long will it hold. I know everythings is related to the topic written and the novelty and usefulness that it brings, but takes quite time to get there.

I would like to see the percentage engagement based on the total number of posts, because if we were to refer just to 10 posts a day that is not very relevant for the entire community. Maybe someone could build such stats.

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Like anything, once it becomes a habit, people usually keep at it.

If one is in the habit of leaving a comment on each post read, that person will continue. If they are getting some rewards, that is gravy.

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Fingers crossed that this will be everyone's new habit. And once they realize that upvoting comments not only under their posts but everywhere is crucial then and only then it's "mission accomplished"

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The greatest value, to me, is the opportunity for newer people. By the rest of us engaging in such a manner, while also encouraging newer people to do so, can have the snowball effect.

Certainly, seeing upvotes next to their comment will help to motivate people to keep going.

It is all part of building, something that Hive needs a lot of. On Leofinance, we are just doing our part.

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It is quite great to see such a level of engagement, but I wonder how long will it hold.

As long as more and more people keep doing the same rather than "saving" VP. You can do it I can do it everyone can do it.

If people just comment with the hope that @onealfa will eventually reward them it won't last long enough. Together we can build something great.

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That is true and my engagement so far was not about hunting @onealfa although I was pleasant surprise whenever I got a vote for him for my posts or comments. There is a limit between spamming every post with comments just in hope of getting votes and truly being interested of the topic and its writing. I might not have the time for it, but at the moment I try to pick and choose the topics of interests to me, so I got a good feeling when getting involved with the writer.

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It would be interesting to see a post from @dalz comparing comments on posts submitted through leofinance vs the rest. Buddy? Doable?

Yes :)

I knew it. Sweet!

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Do you ever get to sleep?

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Sometimes :)

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Go to sleep ffs. You need to make a post. Remember?

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All true. Also there is an engaged community that is interested in getting more people involved. Thus, we all pile into the idea of spending some time each day adding comments.

What is cool is that it is not bots either. Nor are they, for the most part, spammy such as nice post, thanks. Instead they are real people putting up genuine comments on posts they read.

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True. Plus everyone is experienced enough nowadays to figure out whether a comment is spammy or not. There's that downvote button too right?

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Yes but it is hidden. Under the three dots

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Heh, hidden ? Never thought it is. I've found it long ago, and I use it every day. So all coming new spammers and coin milkers can also see easy, in what place they have just arrived. 😃
Keeping this place clean and attractive for long time - I see as one of the biggest long term challenges

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My thoughts exactly. Not hidden at all..

Downvote power is more than enough

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More engagement means more page views means more ad views means more revenue means better leo price lol what’s not to love. One alpha has really helped greese the wheels too!

I think we’re building a sleeping giant here and encouraging the right behaviour

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Sleeping giant eh? I like it.

And once that giant wakes up...

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I think we'll be in for quite the ride should it wake up and start running which is why I am staking every bit of LEO I can get my hands on while its still fairly cheap

Yes it is cheap. I've accumulated six whale worth of new Leo's (as per taskmasters calculations) during this last 5 days. With the extra low HE liquidity this was not so easy. But fun.

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Oh my...you're crazy :)

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I want to be a TORUK

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Now that was some smooth operating picking up that many without pushing the price up too much.

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It's great to see that LEO team decisions make fruition... After that nasty hack, it looks that the community stood behind the LEO even stronger than ever... And you said it right... those "strange curves" really f-up things... Playing simple, without minimum payouts stuff helps a lot to motivate people to engage more...

It's great to see a lot of comments and imagine what will happen when the numbers go up... :)

Oh I keep dreaming of those days. When this place will be overcrowded...

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Yeah, and with time (and already for some) responding to comments will itself become a more-or-less full time occupation :D. LeoF, as you state, is already a bit like Steem was when it traded at $5ish, imagine what'll happen when LEO trades for something similar.....there'll be an almighty goldrush from Hive as well as from the outside and it's gona be hard to keep up.......not at all a bad problem to have!

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Oh looking forward to that these days...you have no idea.

Full time job eh? Who knows. It might will...I for one am answering to those comments for more than 2 hours. And I love it. It profitable too ya know. Crazy times

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They'll be here sooner that we expect I reckon......combo of lockdown and climbing Leo value amongst other things (like some sooopa-dooopa development work constantly going on in the background :)

leofactor.jpg

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Getting rid of the curve was the best thing so far. Keep it simple, it really is a thing. The curve on comments destroyed engagement on Hive

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The thing is that we wanted to protect the chain from spam and we scarified engagement eventually. Sad

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It's an amazing change! Commenting on Leo has become really rewarding! And as you said, it's not only commenting, it's the engagement and time spent on a page. Both of these things come together because, in order to produce a meaningful comment, you must read the article. As simple as that.

A small change that goes a long way! Kudos to everyone here! You are great!

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None of that would matter if it wasn't people and users who liked the idea and the vision behind it.

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That's right, though!

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The engagement on Leo posts is certainly better than on Hive, although I don't think many people are up voting comments like you are. I'm up voting any replies I get 100% but my Leo vote is tiny.

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It will grow in no time as long as you stick around. It could even distribute more than what your HP does atm...

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Yes, I'm watching that now, still getting my head how it works in relation to Hive, and will certainly give it time.

OK here's my dumb question for today - if my Hive default vote for comments is 10% and on Leo it's 100%, if I upvote a Leo comment displayed on my Hive timeline, which vote weight will it ba at?

Depends on which account your LEO tokens are staked. If everything is staked on one account then it will be exactly the way you've set these parameters. Aka 10% and 100%

That's why I use an alt account for LEO Voting at 100% every comment will eventually drain your LEO VP and you'll earn pennies.

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Wow, congrats!

I too am seeing an increase in my LEO obtained by commenting on posts.

It is really very stimulating and I deserve it from all the big stakeholders who have decided not only to manually edit but also to pay attention to the comments, stimulating interaction between users 😊

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And that should be a lesson to everyone. Redistribution via rewarding comments is what everyone should do. Not only big stakeholders. But everyone

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You are absolutely right, the boost in engagement and with that the fun using this platform has increased enormously over the last couple of weeks. Getting rid of the sophisticated curatin window and curve may have its impact on that. In addition to that, I think the underlying idea of this platform is such an optimal fit, that success is highly likely. Bringing people that are interested in investing and learning about crypto together in one place, where they can read and write about that topic, but on top of that earn, stake, swapp tokens and be part of a decentralized community its a very compelling story. This basic busines-model is the thing I risk my money on. Staying informed about everything that is happening in crypto, meeting interesting people and reading about their strategys and the fun to be part of a community are extra-benefits, I greatly enjoy and are hard to calculate in cash value. All these facts will make the initiatives to recruit users from other sites successful and will drive the price of this scarce LEO token. Interesting times ahead!

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Said it all. Literally all.

All in one place. Education, fun, social aspect and rewards.

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Thank you! Maybe I should do a post about it myself. I am really looking forward to the growth of this platform I expect.

Maybe? Go for it!

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Yes @mindtrap, that definitely explains it! (:

Another reason is because there are some on Leofinance (like me, for instance) that are keenly interested in reading financial articles/reports but may not have the requisite knowledge to share.

Comments are then the only way we can contribute (besides upvoting, that is).

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Isn't it a great way to be valuable too? What's a logger without commenters? What's an actor without an audience?

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That's true, @mindtrap-leo!

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Perhaps one of the single most important things we are witnessing here is not just engagement — which is great, don't get me wrong — but the building of a community culture that revolves not only around content creation, but also around content consumption.

To use a very old-fashioned "analog" analogy (see what I did there?), it doesn't ultimately matter HOW GREAT a magazine you create if nobody actually consumes it by reading and subscribing. You'll just go out of business. Sure, the blockchain/crypto financial model is a little different, but the psychological underpinnings are not... people who create might like to get paid, but they also thrive on the intangible reward of knowing that people read and like their work.

It's amazing to see the activity level here... and it will be very interesting to see how well it holds up as the community scales up with a steady stream of new users.

=^..^=

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta