LBI Voting Proposal Rebuttal

in LeoFinance3 days ago

We had a post that was a proposal on the voting distribution of the LBI account.

At first I thought it was an April Fool's Joke until I looked at the date. Since it is long past it, I can only conclude that this is a legitimate, albeit completely misinformed proposal.

So let's us dig right in.

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To start, we need to understand what LBI stands for. It supports the Leofinance platform and the tenets being set forth. Thus, we try to model the practices that are designed to be in the best interest of the ecosystem.

What does this mean?

It start with manual voting. No bots are used and every single vote is from a manual curation. In other words, there is a button pushed by a human person. I know because I am the one doing it all day long.

At the same time, LBI puts up quality posts. We do not post short form content. All writers compile posts of more than 500 words, often pushing 1,000. This is not a couple hundred word posts with a picture.

Finally, we support content of that nature. Trust me when I tell you, this can get to be rather difficult. Leofinance is al long-form platform yet a large portion of the posts are nowhere near that. In fact, many of them are barely more than what is on Twitter.

Now onto the proposal.

We start with this:

I propose that votes from the @lbi-token account should be distributed to LBI token holders in the first instance.

The answer to this is summed up by @melbournewest in the comment section.

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Even though the author of the post disputed it, this is exactly what it is. One is exchanging money for votes. In the reply to the comment it even talks about it being incentive to buy the token. Even passed that, it would then automate upvoting using a bot. Isn't that what we are trying to get away from?

Then we have the issue of the posting. The proposal goes through a series of criteria to receive the vote.

Here is the problem, most LBI members posts are really not up to par. As stated above, many cant even get to 500 words with most being a fair bit lower. And how we are going to reward that type of behavior on a long form content platform.

The final issue with this comes from this statement:

The formation of a content curation team (including current curators) would be required. This would be done through a nomination and voting process through the @lbi-gov team. Roles and responsibilities would be determined through consultation with the gov and admin team before nominations are asked for.

Oh really? Why are @hetty-rowan and @silerstackeruk writing 3 LBI posts week, each?

In other words who is going to be on this committee. Are these people going to magically appear? How many people have volunteered to do things. The percentage of wallet holders who actually do anything for LBI, i.e. give their time, is very low.

Also, the post talks about getting a return. Well, there is a post made by LBI every day. This happens almost without fail. There are over 250 wallets holding LBI tokens.

Yet, on the LBI posts, there are around 15 top line comments on average. For a platform that wants to drive engagement, that is a horrible percentage.

Which brings up the return.

On the LBI posts, every top line comment (with the exception of "Nice Post" stuff) gets an upvote from the LBI account. Oftentimes, the replies to comments will also get votes.

As many will point out, not everyone creates long-form content. That is true. Yet everyone can leave a comment, especially for something they are supposedly involved in. Even the contest comments get upvotes which that is often just putting in a number.

How the engagement on the LBI posts is abysmal in spite of getting comments upvoted.

Here again, we see an example of someone putting forth an idea without any concern for the time and effort others are already doing to carry this load of this project.

Perhaps instead of a proposal, someone should offer to step up and write a post or two a week. After all, with 250 accounts with LBI, you would think that is at least 1 or 2 who could put together an article.

Actually, isn't that what this proposal as asking for? People to be upvoted for their content. Yet for some reason, none have the skills to write a post or two for LBI.

Here is the [post] for anyone who wants to read it.


If you found this article informative, please give an upvote and rehive.

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@taskmaster4450le as the author of this proposal I have responded to a few of your points below:

To start, we need to understand what LBI stands for. It supports the Leofinance platform and the tenets being set forth. Thus, we try to model the practices that are designed to be in the best interest of the ecosystem.

Being an 'Investment' token, aren't investors looking for the best returns on their investment? My proposal is looking at other ways to increase that return on investment. Yes, I agree that receiving auto-votes may not be in the best interest of LeoFinance and the ecosystem and I respect that, however, my proposal was to engage in another idea to add an investment revenue for token holders. Yes some of these ideas may be a little flawed and need some refinement or deletion, but in the absence of any other proposals or this type of engagement from the LBI community, I decided to put this out there for discussion.

In other words who is going to be on this committee. Are these people going to magically appear? How many people have volunteered to do things. The percentage of wallet holders who actually do anything for LBI, i.e. give their time, is very low.

I acknowledge that there are very few who offer their time or suggestions of any kind for this project, hence why I took the time to put together a proposal as there have been none. I am not going to be offended in anyway if investors shoot my proposal to pieces or it is not in anyway the purpose of the project. However, I see very little engagement or ideas from most of this community and I wanted to put forward something, that at the very least, has generated some comments and discussion. An idea that people might be able to engage in, discuss, suggest changes and re-work to something that might be suitable? All too often I see people 'suck up' and comment crap to larger stakeholders and projects, never questioning or putting forward something for discussion.

Perhaps instead of a proposal, someone should offer to step up and write a post or two a week. After all, with 250 accounts with LBI, you would think that is at least 1 or 2 who could put together an article.

It's interesting you should make this comment as this is exactly what I did in the early days of the LBI token being launched. I offered to write a weekly or fortnightly post for the team but the offer was declined. Perhaps my content or writing abilities were not deemed suitable but I was keen to offer my time for the benefit of all LBI holders.
I was also the first person to nominate for the lbi-gov team as no-one else seemed to want to put their hand up. I felt my nomination opened the gates for others to step forward.

I appreciate the time and effort that others put into the project, hence why I have offered my time to assist as well. You are correct when you highlight that many people do not want to give their time to the project, but I can't help but think how people might not want to take the time and effort in putting forward a proposal when it could be torn to pieces and ridiculed somewhat. If this was not your intention then I accept this, but it does have me questioning why I would put in the time and effort again. My understanding was we might look at proposals objectively as a community and discuss the merits, downfalls and changes that might make a proposal of benefit to the community. I always teach that feedback needs to be constructive, outline the flaws or concerns but also acknowledge any merits and/or provide suggestions where possible. Perhaps your feedback methods differ or you don't see any merits in the proposal at all.

The points made in this rebuttal are all legitimate points and I can see how this type of proposal could be abused and could take a lot of time to manage. I acknowledge the concerns from the feedback and would normally put forward an update or suggested changes to the proposal but don't really see the purpose in putting anymore time or effort into it after the feedback from your response and the comments from the community.

I do appreciate you taking the time to read through the proposal and providing your rebuttal and I also acknowledge that this comment is probably longer than most posts on this ecosystem!

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I also acknowledge that this comment is probably longer than most posts on this ecosystem!

Yes it is and this is a problem. Not with your comment, but the fact that we are seeing so few posts that have the quality of this comment. It is about a subject matter of interest, took time to create, and shows the thought you put into it.

Sadly, that is not evident in many of the posts we see. And that is a problem as one who is spending time manually curating content on Leofinance each day.

I have no problem upvoting content, LBI or otherwise, that reflects the standard shown in this comment. Sure it is impossible to see everything but the posts are gone through.

There is no deciphering who is LBI and who isnt with upvotes, it is based upon the post itself. The vote values will be changed based upon the post itself, some simply are not worth a higher amount but do merit something.

Also we are spreading the token out a great deal more which will enhance the value of the return LBI holders get. When distribution is stronger, that helps make the tokenomics even more resilient. Thus, one might look at it as getting a few extra LBI is an improvement of ROI; another way is the improvement of the system will create a greater ROI as compared to a few tokens.

Finally, as stated, there are ways for people to get the "auotmatic" upvotes from the LBI account. Simply post a comment each day in the LBI post and will it get one (as long as it isnt one of those dopey Wow nice post I love it type deals). Engagement in the LBI post will end up getting supported.

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Although I disagree with your proposal I do respect that you took the time to up it together.

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As many will point out, not everyone creates long-form content. That is true. Yet everyone can leave a comment

Making a long post is not easy for everyone but comments are possible. I agree with you.

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Thank you for the comment.

It is incredible how, when people commit to commenting, they can do it. Articles are difficult for many to write; not everyone's thing.

Comments add a lot to the interaction.

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Yes, the whole idea is to get "authentic" engagement from living, breathing people. This is not a pay-for-play format. Curate. Comment, vote, engage. These three things help EVERYONE. Not just the person/people doing it/them. I've written at least a dozen posts about why people should engage. The benefits go far beyond simply earning tokens.

I realize not everyone can put hours every day into this forum. In fact, with real life right now, I can't either. But I still try to find a way to at least get some votes out there and make a few comments. Not only does that mean my account is still slowly growing, but I'm keeping abreast of what's happening and I'm learning new things along the way.

There is no short-cut to building your account. If you want to buy it, feel free. I bought a bunch. But don't expect rewards for making little effort and don't think money can buy you a "guaranteed" return. If you want that, buy Cub. That's what defi is for....

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I realize not everyone can put hours every day into this forum

Most have lives outside of Leofinance...then there are those of us who do not. 😁

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Totally agree with @melbournewest reply and your post makes a lot of sense .

I have mentioned it many times too , take time to read and reply to @lbi-token . It pays off to just drop a comment ( which is your opinion on the matter of the post ) on the post and 99% of the time you will receive the upvote .

This is the negative mindset of people , oh I hold LBI ? So upvote all my posts first . No , it shouldn't work like that , put some effort and it will definitely pay off.

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I am more surprised that there aren't as many people leaving comments on the post. I like the idea of the manual curation because LBI is an investment token. I never expected anything besides LEO dividends and the price appreciation of the token.

Also like I replied to multiple people, you forgot to put the url and its here for anyone wondering about it.
https://leofinance.io/@scooter77/lbi-token-voting-distribution-proposal

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Thanks for covering me on that one.

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I didn't know about the proposal, so thanks for bringing it to my attention. After reading it, I can just say that it's wrong, wrong, wrong. If LBI would be about what the proposal says, I would be out in a second.

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Well it is something that is proposed so I presume the Gov. team will take up the matter and put it out there.

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Once again shooting my shot to say I am willing to contribute to LBI if needed!

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I would think you are about to have your hands full based upon your last post.

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There's always time for a little guest post! LOL

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So this is actually in effect for the LBI token or not yet and it's being talked about?
Sounds majorly like a bid bot in a way. Buy in get a guaranteed vote on your content.

I respect that many of you including yourself manual curate content its for sure what needs to be done and needs to continue to be done. It's a VERY time consuming process to try and find new accounts that have good articles, check it for plagiarism, read through it upvote it and maybe drop a comment.

It kind of brings me back to an article I wrote about a little bit about about delegations. Where you now have one account (which I'm sure often times is one person) now trying to do the curation work for 100 accounts+ while those that delegate sit back and collect the rewards. That reduces, engagement, people putting forth the time (investment money and time wise) into making this platform great. IDK I'm still leaning towards delegation and large accounts actually being a bad thing or at least having to be very closely monitored.

So this is actually in effect for the LBI token or not yet and it's being talked about?

It isn't in effect . @lbi-token doesn't give priority to LBI holders posts/comments as far as I know .

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You are correct.

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Here is the [post] for anyone who wants to read it.

I believe the link to the post is missing.

Anyway, this is a good point. I'm very satisfied with the things that the LBI project has continually provided to the community. The curation and the quality content really add a lot of value to LeoFinance. We could use more stuff like that around here.

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Haha yea the link is missing. He has been making a few mistakes every now and then. But it may be expected since he has been posting over 200 comments a day on average. I also put in the link to this comment incase you wanted to reread it.

https://leofinance.io/@scooter77/lbi-token-voting-distribution-proposal

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What’s the URL of the proposal?

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Here is the link that he forgot to put in.

https://leofinance.io/@scooter77/lbi-token-voting-distribution-proposal

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Well contents should be upvoted based on merit and it should not be because the author have lbi token or not.....upvoting contents just only because the person is a lbi token holder is not advicable,it defeats the purpose of the platform itself....


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You didn't link the post :) I'm very confused how I missed it because I comment on each lbi post and also follow their governance account

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You are a commenting machine. One of the keyboard warriors (as well as @leomarkettalk resident meme creator).

In other words, one of the good ones.

Upvoted for just being you.

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Thank you for the nice words, I really appreciate them even though I don't see what I do as being anything significant, just having fun :)

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I hold LBI but don't expect votes in return. I have bough it as an investment and for the future returns. I wouldn't like to see this kind of pay to receive votes incentive become a part of it and would rather see those votes spread out to as many people as possible and help to encourage the users of leofinance and keep up activity where the content is worthy of it.

The long term game is better than a quick profit as by helping to improve the community our holdings will be worth more in time than trying to make quick returns and hurt the system.

Long term is always my mindset. Not everyone comes from that place and take a different approach. I understand that. There are many different ways people come at things.

So I agree with how you tend to view things. Yet that is why we have votes, not all are in agreement.

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Interesting rebuttal. As part of the Gov team I am going to refrain from posting too much. I just wanted to drop in and say that I appreciate your reply. I am also excited that we finally have at least one proposal. I hope in the future we can have more.

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I love you @bozz.

You are just thrilled to have a proposal, you dont really care what it is. We could propose to start LBI on the moon, as long as there is something to do. LOL

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As part of the gov team I am obligated not to care what it is! I definitely have opinions, but I try not to let them influence others. At least as long as I am on the team.