The Struggle For Adoption & A Crazy Solution?

in #hiveonboard9 months ago

The Struggle For Adoption  A Crazy Solution_.png

Seems to be the recurring theme huh?

How do we get more people to jump on board the HIVE train?

We've got the coolest community!

The most active dapps on any blockchain.

Technology that is superior to almost any other project out there...And NO FEES!!!

But still...We're ranked around 100 on the crypto rankings and can't seem to bring the masses here...

Why is it?

Lack of leadership? I don't think so...I think we have some amazing people and as a decentralized blockchain, it makes sense to have a lot of voices. Sure, it would be cool to have a 'Gary Vaynerchuk' as our spokesperson, but we still do and build great things together.

No I think it comes down to....Ease of use!

Before I dive into this, let me just give a MASSIVE shout out to @HiveOnboard! This service has been heaven sent and something I think will help onboard so many more people to Hive.

However after that....

The mess begins.

I was working with a newer Hivian (is that we call ourselves yet??) this week and she's not a 'noob' when it comes to technology or social media.

She got her account set up with ease but after that, it was a mess for her...

Hive Power, HBD, powering up, delegation, resource credits, mana, private key, posting key, active key...Oh and don't forget master password!

But wait there's more...Then you have PeakD, LeoFinance, Hive Blog, 3speak, CTPtalk and countless other front end applications...Which require tags...Don't forget the tags :)

This is all how Hive is set up and I get it, it was designed by people who are super smart and see the need for everything. But for regular folk, it's just a mess....

I train people for a living, so for me, I could sense the frustration building within her...I felt like she was about to throw in the towel.

Remember, this is not someone who just started working online a week ago, she had a decade plus of experience in social media and building online businesses....

I wondered to myself, how many people have we lost because...It's just not user friendly enough for the every day person to 'dive right in'?

They give up because there is just way too much information and new terms thrown at them on day one...

Again, I'm very bullish on @HiveOnboard and it's why I included it in all my training on StartEarning.Today and ClickTrackProfit itself.

But wow...We need to dumb it down.

It's not up to the world to adjust to our way of doing things, we need to adjust to make it easier for them to play in our sandbox!

Because wow, we've got a great sandbox :)

I truly believe this is what holds Hive back from being adopted by the masses.

I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, and I did manage to figure things out (somewhat) since I joined in 2017. But it took me time. And yes, people don't need a PHd in Hive-ology when they first start out...It's a journey and they will learn the tricks of the trade as they progress.

But that original experience....Is SO critical!

So what about solutions....

Maybe we could gamify it a bit when people join...Let people play with certain account features and they 'unlock' new account keys when they start earning some Hive....Learn what a posting key is by using it....And when you have earned enough (say 5 Hive), you 'unlock' your active key...

After you have gotten a certain amount of upvotes you unlock 15 hive power as a delegation and then learn about resource credits.

Make it fun.

Again, not the sharpest tool in the shed so I have no idea if this can even be pulled off, but I know how effective this method of learning can be. Don't flood them with too much information at once. Step by step, small tasks that they can master while learning the ropes...

Once they 'unlock' that feature, it's onto another feature of Hive and so on...

We could attract and retain so many more members to our blockchain.

Just shooting off some ideas at 11:34 pm on a Tuesday night :)

Thoughts? Insane? Go to bed Jongo?


Building a business online? Curious about affiliate marketing? Sick of the scams and schemes?

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I would love to gamify Hive and give users ”quests” with clear cut guidelines that lead to a reward. We could find the rewards via the DAO/Donations (I would donate)

@hivebuzz
not that system?
It's right there waiting for actual rewards for noobs and newbies.

#MAKEBADGESGREATAGAIN

Absolutely, if there was a way to integrate it into the sign up process and follow new members on their journey, that would be a huge win.

Coders could do it easy. Overnight!
It's all an act though.. they don't want to improve the system. Look how @blocktrades voted down on you.
Because he's still in a money/power battle with @haejin who voted you up.
It's a joke. Money hungry clowns at the wheel.

I have the answer to this 100% Dan. Lets talk.

We tried to do that with the old SteemSavvy program, but weren't techie enough to combine it with the blockchain lol (We're getting better lol slowly)

But yeah man, do this task, unlock the next one...That way people feel confident in what they are learning and will want to progress. Top that off with Hive rewards too, could be a lot of fun...Leaderboards and all.

Appreciate the feedback man!

Amazing idea. Seems like an incentive based pathway to slowly being introduced to Hive features.

I feel very frustrated with learning the ropes of buying and selling and also trafficwave is sending me around the bend. Maybe gamifying would help the learning process. I dont know. I am a sight learning person I have to see things done several times before it sticks. I would give it a try.

And I think Hive being gamified would be perfect for you. You would learn by doing and seeing all the amazing features this blockchain has to offer.

I totally agree that with gamification we could increase the retation rate of the people who start with Hive. When I joined Lbry I quite liked the fact that you got some rewards for doing stuff. I believe that this is the correct way to go.

If you take the users step by step and reward them for every step that they take, I think you could create that would allow them to seamlessly become a regular user. I believe it wouldn't be necessary to go through every step of the way. I think with steem savy you did an amazing job but it went almost too much into details and since the blockchain changes so quickly, you had to update your content on a regular basis.

In my eyes, it would be enough to like have a 20 Hive capital for new users that they could unlock step by step.

Possible steps:

  • follow somebody
  • write a comment
  • give an upvote
  • download Hive keychain
  • reward for watching a video that explains hive / HP / Hbd
  • reward for watching a video that explains the payout process (author reward/curation reward)
  • unlocking 15 HP and then they have to power up
  • write a post

As @theycallmedan wrote, it could be financed with DAO

I think this is would be the key for HIVE to mass adoption

100% agree!

Man LBRY gets it when it comes to onboarding new users. It's addicting and makes you wanna keep unlocking stuff as you create, engage and get more followers.

We could do that so easily here.

I agree that it is a good idea to gamify it... Even LBRY has some level of "motivating" users to stay on the platform (rewards for watching, getting a certain number of followers, etc), and they have a different economy... I would say that HIVE can do that even easier...

Exactly!!!

LBRY is perfect in that regard...You start getting these little rewards for actually using the platform and you want to earn more, so you end up doing more...

Huge for HIVE if we can make that happen.

Yup.. and nobody has to give anything from it's "own pocket"... It can be easily done by whale upvotes... ;)

Or that sexy DAO that has millions and millions of funds LOL

Yeah... or that... I just didn't want to use that word... lol...

People look at DAO as a pot of money with snakes inside... That nobody can't touch... :D

LOL Ya...

I mean, Dapplr can't even get their proposals funded. If they can't, there is no hope for the rest of us LOL

I'd like to see peakd or other front ends pop up tips for new users, with an option to turn them off of course. So it could say things like:

  • Write an introduction post. Could present a template for that
  • Join some communities. Ask what their interests are and suggest some.
  • Follow some people
  • Power up your Hive, when you get some
  • Vote for some witnesses
  • Do not vote on comments until you have more HP
  • Reply to comments

Some of these things are not obvious. There are some good tutorial posts out there, but they need pulling together into a good introduction for newbies. Getting it translated will help. Those are tasks that people could be paid to do.

Gamifying the experience could be helpful too.

We got amazing people here that could tackle all of it for sure.

The simpler it is, the easier it is for people to actually 'post and engage' the better! I think the front ends could crush it in that regard.

Wow, you mean gamification actually works and that people get motivated by 'Unlocking stages ' as they go along,

I would love to see it Gamified, but that may be a community activity such as Here is lesson 1, follow this and reach this goal and you will then get access to lesson 2 with a constant reminder to not get ahead of oneself and confuse the matter.

I am sure I have seen that model before ???

LOL Never heard of it ever before ;)

I think we need to promote light accounts which let people try before they buy so to speak. I think @travelfeed does this and manages the accounts for them. Bring the people here first and then when they realize what we have they will be scrambling to upgrade to full accounts.

So true...And I think if you make it fun, people will really enjoy the process!

Gamify sounds like adding steps and delays. It doesn't really help the user. Sure, let's make thing simpler, and more efficient, and explained better. But we can do that without gamification, quests, etc. Enough with the stupid gimmicky crap. Nobody wants extra steps and "games" and hoops to jump through. Gamification is the opposite of efficiency and funcionality. Make it optional, if you really need to gamify the blockchain, but please make the default option "off".

Sure it can be a choice.

The problem is...Most new people don't even understand step one.

And then they are thrown to the wolves, told to go create and poke around...But then learn they need resource credits...I mean, just the wording alone LOL

Why call it resource credits, just say 'you need hive power to operate here' lol

Buddy, you make sense!

I try to tell my wife that, and she just shakes her head at me lol

Thanks for the comments, appreciate you swinging by!

It seems the secret for adoption for most new social media and such like, lies with the kids. The younger generation are the ones who get hold of something and push it into the mainstream. Kids like things that are fun and easy usually, and end up something they are possibly addicted too and obsessed with.

Really good point. I think Hive has some very unique features that can attract younger crowds, the problem is getting them onboard and having them stick around long term.

Something like this, I truly believe, could help that.

Thanks you for ding this man 👨

I have absolutely zero experience in online marketing. And also there are so many ways to bring adoption.

If you think I can add value in anyway I can then please let me know.

Super excited

lol dude, in my opinion you are actually an online marketing genius. What you do with Twitter is MIND blowing. That to me, is so important for the promotion and marketing of Hive.

Man, I like that idea. I like it a lot.

Right now, it seems futile to me to onboard casual users. Because it's so overwhelming to them, and frankly, I don't have time to hold a person's hand through the first two weeks or so.

Maybe a special banner or color stripe or something to readily id a new user that hasn't unlocked all the steps yet? I'd think many would support those users... Sort of like the 'yellow bumper' in NASCAR. Rookies have a yellow bumper and the veteran drivers give them a bit more room.

Great plan, Jon. I'll help where I can.

Heck that could even be added to the mix...Where you are 'rewarded' for helping the yellow bumpers...Etc..

Just shooting ideas LOL

Thanks man, thought you would like it :)

I really like it a LOT. Yellow bumpers here we come!

Dude, you hit the nail on the head. So many people leave during or after setup. I think the idea of unlocking features slowly and with incentives will let them ease into Hive without being overwhelmed.

Yeah that's my thinking...

Being rewarded instills confidence in people. So if they are being rewarded and unlocking things at their own pace, they'll feel much more comfortable here and willing to not only stick around but potentially invest in the token.

A simple step-by-step gamification process is most likely the answer to way better retention and widespread word of mouth publicity from happy new users. And you are absolutely right to keep pushing for this over and over again.

Man to me, it would create excitement and generate engaged members.

Happy community members means much more publicity and 'shilling' outside our circle. All a good thing.

Indeed not easy to get a hang of it, though a lot better and improved than before yet a lot be done to make it more attractive rather than frustrating and thus saying a Good bye :)

Agreed. Once people get it, they are hooked lol At least I was...But that initial learning curve is steep.

Speaking as a new user and an official bonehead this is exactly what needs to happen. I joined a week after the hardfork with never being on the other blockchain. In fact hive is my first real crypto expery ever.

I dabble posted here and there for a bit but didnt get seriously into it until I started to understand it more. I still dont understand it fully yet and yet.

I've been using dapplr on mobile for a while now and they have dumbed it down quite a bit making it much more simple and similar to a "normal" social media experience. And its a "pretty" app to look at. With me being a truck driver and on mobile 6 days a week dapplr is a god send. Ecensy is nice but waaaaaaaaaay too much to try to get through on mobile.

I used Rebuzz for awhile and it kinda gamifies things but the user base is so small it gets pretty boring really fast. But hive is plenty big enough that people want to explore and gamifing should be easy enough to come up with quests or tasks.

Posted using Dapplr

Exactly...The mobile experience is so important because most people 'get that'...

I can't wait to try out Dapplr :)

Very true - back in 2016 it was even more confusing BUT the payouts were sometimes huge and the incentive to learn was big.

Not many people are going to spend a year learning the ropes just for 50 cent payouts - it needs to be much easier to use and geeks never do that because they love complexity

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Great point. Some of us got hooked and were willing to ride it out while we figured it out...The masses won't.

It's a fantastic idea as most people are too lazy to learn anything new but with a easy to use front end interface it would make such a difference. I'm always up for testing out new dapps to see if it can improve my user experience and I find value in all the dapps for different reasons and use cases. To have a front end interface that makes onboarding simple, easy, fun and rewarding would be incredible especially if it would have a referral link and affiliate program to not only make it easy to invite new users but also to reward affiliates. People would pay for a well thought out and well structured product and there could be different entry levels for onboarding starting with a free option and then other options to invest with Hive based purely on choice and desire to grow on Hive without a sales pitch and explained in such a way that by upgrading they are actually investing in themselves and their part ownership of the Hive Economy.

It has to be seamless. The experience should be natural so people don't feel like it's gimmicky as stated above.

But if you do it right, wow the loyalty and engagement it would create...

Makes a whole ton of sense for most folks! It does take some time to learn your way around hive. Not overwhelming folks when they first join is a fantastic idea and should be looked at should be done for the future of Hive.

I think that the more people poke around and get familiar with things, they'll embrace it.

Just too much at once, is overwhelming.

I think gamifying Hive is a great idea, get rewarded as you go and implement different features on the blockchain. I have been here for a year and there are still plenty of things I don't know. I think it would speed up the learning curve to have a gamified onboarding system.

Oh man, it would be a ton of fun too. Just discover new things but learn as you go...Big potential.

Maybe we could gamify it a bit when people join

Just now we were discussing on this ( @nainaztengra and me). Here is what is my opinion from the other thread, we must gamify it to attract new people and tempt them to get habituated to the platform.

I feel at least up to 2000 or 2500 SP (without they withdrawing anything till they reach there), we should reward them. I am sure, by that time, they will be habituated to the platform, if not addicted and then can decide.

Ahhhh that word is perfect....Habituated. Building the habits that make people WANT to keep coming back...Big big!

Reaching out to popular content creators on other platforms and offering them incentives to produce HIVE exclusive content, or content that funnels people over to hive I think is something we should explore.
That would involve a lot of time and money in order to make those deals but I'm certain it can be done, Raid Shadowlegends style.

I figure something like that might take the combined effort of the community to fund, and since the next HF will have a worker proposal system that taxes everyone, why not use that to get this done? Maybe certain interested witnesses could act as HIVE community reps and make contact?

I figure the more normies we can direct our way the better, even if they're just here to check out the exclusive content. Once we get them here we can try to hook and keep them in other ways. Such as gamifying the chain in some way as the other comments mention

Anyways, just a thought.

Oh and then think of this...We have the 'referral program' that HiveOnboard started up....Imagine those content creators encouraging their audience to come to Hive, learn the ropes as they poke around...

The more their 'audience' learns Hive and get rewarded, they do too.

Nope.
That's Shilling.
That's how nearly everyone will see it.

No one with an established following will risk getting cancelled because they got paid to say "go to hive".
That actually happened already.
David Pacman or whatever that clown's name is did that very thing with his TRUMP-HATE content and didn't do a single positive thing for onboarding.
Instead he was forced to disable comments because even his own fans didn't like getting treated as sheep.

Plus it's essentially saying:
The content creators here aren't quality. Let's pay people outside of here, to make quality content outside of here, that makes people want to come here.

Isn't that what marketing is...Shilling ;)

The content creators here aren't quality. Let's pay people outside of here, to make quality content outside of here, that makes people want to come here.

You are wrong actually here. They are same user who are writing content outside too.
Before you start judging the content in Hive more, I like to know what do you understand by term Hive.

My point wasn't that it's not happening.
It's the message expressed with that statement.

Your question also needs expending..

Term is a term.

HIVE what? The name, Blockchain, community, token.

You've asked for a subjective view I gather, when I see things objectively. Meaning I'm not emotionally committed. It really means nothing to me. I just make observations and convey opinion.

Since we both are not emotional fools so I think there is no need for us to engage in debate.

Let's keep our opinion safe with us.

There you go, a smart person.
I respect your ability to realize it's pointless to play word tennis over something which, if you're committed to, you have emotional ties to. It's a pointless senate, specially with someone (I) who isn't emotionally tied to that thing.

Because my default I'll always be rational.
And a person committed (not specifically you), will always represent more on the side of emotion.

"Reaching out to popular content creators on other platforms and offering them incentives to produce HIVE exclusive content, or content that funnels people over to hive I think is something we should explore."

Wouldn't we have to start paying the content-creators that built this blockchain and continue to create the content that drives literally everything here?

We can't afford to pay new people from other sites to come create content here if we can't pay our existing content-creators.

I didn't realize there was a problem with payouts. That's... revealing. Yeah that needs to get fixed quick smart or no one will come here at all.

I hope to see this discussion continue. I like the gamification idea. I’m not sure how to do it.

Oh on a backend...I have no idea LOL

But I could see it as clear as day, how we could gamify each step of the way, and get people commenting, curating, creating all while learning each feature of the blockchain.

Would be a ton of fun!

Not exactly what I had in mind...Hive Buzz rewards for actions, but no explanation and training on why someone is doing this, and doing that...Or why they should be doing this or that.

I'd say take HiveBuzz and create training right around it.

Spot on every single word!

Appreciate that :)

Tell your friends, one by one, should get better with time. Also dapps have to make an effort to acquire customers.

Yeah I think there are some amazing dapps reaching out and spreading the word...But we could all benefit from a much easier user experience for our newer members :)

Now this is a brilliant idea, reward them each step of the way and give them the option to opt if if they choose.

Yeah man, we've been doing it for years with our businesses. And I just think people appreciate not being flooded with so much all at once. Reward them for taking their time, one step, two step etc..

Quien puede enseñarme a trabajar con esta página?

Qué te está deteniendo?

Pues amigo que la trabajo es por mi celu y aparece es en inglés y no lo manejo aparte que no se cual es el o los métodos para que voten a mis publicaciones para ganar token y como se cambian a dólares? Este es mi correo alalejandro94@gmail.com,ayúdame por favor

The idea of a game might stimulate people that is true. In the same time, a lot of social media users are used to instant gratification. They just consume content, get little hearts and barely think about it long term. I see Hive as a community of over the average people. I am not sure if we would like dumb people around lol. But I do agree that a simplified version of a smart community would make it more accesible for the masses.

I guess that despite all efforts, it is still up to the user's strenght of will to pursue posting and engaging on Hive. Hive is unique and it is not your average social media platform. And I am sure it will grow big.

I dont think it means dumbing it down for low intelligence folks lol :)

I mean, a lot of the people in my community can write emails, do ad copy, create videos...But if you ask them about how a blockchain works, they look at you funny.

Blockchain is super complicated to people who don't understand it. I think if we help these people get comfortable, they'll become engaged and want to dive in more.

More interest = more Hive love around the interwebs :)

Haha only smart people please, stupidity gives terrible headaches😂😂😂 Anyway, I agree with you and making blockchain more easily understood would indeed help Hive

Thank you Jon, I joined the StartEarningToday program, and now I am earning even more crypto. Way to go.

Update:
Looking deeper into it I feel I have to add this to my comment.
Most of the modules in it is fine.
But thinking more about it and also reading some posts here on CTPtalk
regarding Freebitcoin, that is a part of this program.
https://ctptalk.com/ctp/@invest4free/how-i-lost-5307-satochi-s-on-freebitcoin
I feel I have to add this to my comment that I have to say that I cannot in good conscience
condone this part of the program.
As this can cause problems for people with gambling addictions.

Investing in stocks and crypto can be considered gambling too.

Anywho, in the years I've been using Freebitcoin, I've never once clicked 'gamble or multiply'....I just use it to get a few satoshis here and there.

But whatever works for ya man.

Just remembered KISS principle (Keep it Simply Stupid).

Gamification will surely help.

Yup!

That's the key to more adoption!

Great share Jon, gamification is always a good way to go, just need to give them direction and a clear path on how to reach each level, keep up your great work.

Yup, and it would need to be seamless, so the user just 'does things' and the reward / next level unlocks...So important so it doesnt feel forced.

I suggested this very thing to be attached to a very embedded system already doing .. VERY MUCH NOTHING.
@hivebuzz has existed from the beginning.
How has that not become implemented with actual rewards @theycallmedan ?

this comment here

To which they reply was:
Screenshot_20200729194201510_com.duckduckgo.mobile.android.jpg

This is why I disagree with the point on leadership. There's no good leadership here.
There's people who self-identify as leaders or people who the community see as leaders (rightfully or.. )

IMO, the thing needs to be simplified.
All these projects are great and all but when very few outside give a shit it's just a bubble. Not even a sandbox. That sand is still useful if sandbox ceases. A bubble just trapped air.

That's why I see this as really an MLM.
Most are trapped here. Specially if you put your money in.. you kind of have to keep telling yourself lies to not feel like a fool for staying so committed.

Savvy money chasers do take profits.
Because money makes money.
The rest though... chase dreams!

That's why I see this as really an MLM.

False. Your tokens are given value to by speculative traders on exchanges mainly trading HIVE against BTC. They gladly do that even while the total inflation is arouns 8 percent a year because the volatility of the token completely dwarfs that.

I don't refer to the token. I mean the system. Those who sit comfy with bags win no matter what. Those who enter at the lower ranks got to work like fools to win.

I mean, not like those Twitter initiatives aren't essentially a very cheap marketing formula. Hiveposh not even giving out real tokens.

I don't refer to the token. I mean the system.

It's nothing like a MLM scheme. Any stakeholder benefits from any increase in the token price in linear proportion to the size of their stake.

Those who sit comfy with bags win no matter what.

Not any more than in any other context.

Those who enter at the lower ranks got to work like fools to win.

Or they can buy into the system. Another possibility is to create a system of their own of which they become the founders and largest stakeholders.

I mean, not like those Twitter initiatives aren't essentially a very cheap marketing formula.

Any stakeholder benefits from re-posting their posts to Twitter. It's very easy and quick to do. Besides, it increases the likelihood of getting a vote from @ocdb.

Hiveposh not even giving out real tokens.

I don't think it's giving out any tokens, yet. But it's a great idea. The plan is to buy the tokens that all the re-posters earn back with funds from the project. There may be a Proposition that, if approved, will be the source of the funds.

Guy I guess I confused you by saying "the system" because yeah you're right it's not actually an MLM system.
I figured a person would realise though that the comparison is not 1:1.

It's an MLM by the system of onboarding and growing the platform. It relies heavily on

  1. People believe in hive (almost cult like belief)
  2. People to on board their family and friends
  3. People to work hard for little or no reward.

Something which by default attracts the bottom dwellers. Because honestly, they're the only ones desperate for rewards from such an initiate.

I'm curious then.. what is your opinion of an MLM formula for onboarding. Do you see any flaws or do you think it's a good formula?

I'm curious then.. what is your opinion of an MLM formula for onboarding. Do you see any flaws or do you think it's a good formula?

You seem quite persistent at trying to apply that term to Hive one way or the other.

Let's see:

People believe in hive (almost cult like belief)

If you've been here through the bear market, then you'd be likely to believe the platform has a future.

People to on board their family and friends

I don't think most people around here have done anything to onboard anyone. There is no incentive. When Facebook was new, I saw greater enthusiasm to get family and friends join it.

People to work hard for little or no reward.

This is crypto. Those of us around tend to know that come a bull market, the token price is likely to go much higher than now, largely due to the market in general rather than anything we do.

Why are you so bothered that I called it MLM.
You bring up persistent..
This is now odd that it's like I personally offended you.
YES I WILL CALL IT MLM.
You're not under an obligation to do so though. So what is it you want to achieve here.
Because clearly we disagree.
That's that.

This is now odd that it's like I personally offended you.

Not really. I don't even know who you are. I'm just trying to educate anyone who reads this. Believe me, you're not the first one to labor under the misconceptions you're currently laboring under. A lot of Hive (earlier Steem) users do not have a clear picture of how the system works. It's something so novel and complex that when people encounter it, they do not understand it and what people don't understand they are often bothered by, which is when they ascribe many negative labels to it that they are familiar with.

If you follow the value, you'll notice that it flows from the speculators who hold the 200 million liquid coins of which 100 are on exchanges to Hive Power holders who control the reward pool. Hive inflation is like an eight percent annual tax paid by the speculators operating on exchanges. They pay it gladly because the immense volatility of the token completely dwarfs it. The difference between the all-time-low of STEEM (7 cents) and its all-time-high ($8.5) is 124-fold. Hive, which is a continuation of Steem, is not a system where earlier joiners make money on the back of those who join later. It's a system where all HP holders make money off the back of speculators who are an entirely different crowd.

The account creation referral system is a very new thing and it is a very small part of the whole. The value gained by that does not go into the pockets of the large stakeholders but anyone who is successful at onboarding other successful onboarders.

YES I WILL CALL IT MLM.

[...]

That's that.

It's within your rights to stay ignorant. I'm talking not only to you but anyone who will read this in the future.

What is this Jon ! Lol

Magical things!

Thanks Jon

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