Next weeks SPinvest club vote - Steem-engine plan required
Hello everyone - This is a quick update and heads up that next weeks SPinvest club vote will be to pick a solution on how to handle a problem we are having on the Steem-engine exchange in relation to issuing SPI tokens. There is a wide-open gap that can and is being traded. Today alone there was around 300 STEEM worth of transactions done by someone buying them for 0.955 and then uncutting SPInvest selling price to resell them for 0.995 making a small profit. This results in SPinvest missing the chance to issue around 150 new tokens. I have done a video but it's a little 18+ and it's basically just me ranting and swearing at my phone for 13 minutes. It was actually very therapeutic and i felt so much better after the rant, i decided to not upload it.
Right now steem-engine is the primary source of growth to SPinvest with around 80% of new tokens being issued from it. We still sell some directly but small amounts in compansion. The way i see it and in the bluntest terms. If people can trade and undercut SPinvest's selling price on the steem-engine exchange, we don't issue tokens. SIMPLE. Right now there is 1 person doing it, but others while join and uncut the person that is uncutting us now. As this continues our sell order moves further down the line and then that's it, growth stops and the fund only grows from earnings. We need to take active action and stop this shit before it spreads and grows into a worse problem. Some may think I'm overreacting but trust me when i say this, steem-engine is our bread and butter the minute. If we cant issue on steem-engine, we will not grow.
There are a few ways to sort this out but i don't have the time to write a post right now. I will think about our options for a few days and write a more detailed post on Saturday. We really need to to take some action on this, the 95% buyback wall will not fix this but i believe we should still have one. I'll be honest, i can think of some stuff but all have more negatives than positives so i guess we'll be picking solutions from a barrel of shit and will have to take a hit one way are the other to protect our bottom dollar source of growth.
So keep your eyes out for that post this Saturday. It will contain all the information and detail required related to the next SPinvest club vote
And FYI, i am aware that steem-engine is a decentralized exchange and everyone is free to do as they wish. This simply does not fit our token distribution plans and we need to protect our investment by ensuring growth continues. Some may not agree with these thoughts but when things happens and people try to profit from us, we gotta cut that shit out and fix the problem so we can focus on other things.
Upload the video....
hehehe
This is natural, I don't think you can stop it, but I will enjoy watching you try!
Nobody 'likes' spread traders, they are called 'scalpers' and they look for arbitrage, like the kind you leave on your steem-engine market by selling for 1 and buying back at 0.95. (or w/e numbers)
You alienated me from this project for doing this, but I still would like to see you succeed, and understanding how markets work is going to be an important step for you.
I'm very aware of scalpers and I'm actually surprised we've been able to operate without this problem for 7 months. I have made alot money from sports arbitrage betting for over a decade but I've never tried to make penny's on super low volume markets as it seems like a waste of time when there is easier money and more to be made elsewhere.
I think i have a grasp on how the market works and the problem could be easily fixed by closing the spread with a 99.99% buyback wall in place.
Thanks for the feedback.
If you are willing to provide that liquidity, you are right, that is a completely viable solution. If not, the scalpers are providing a service.
It's the only solution in my mind that will work. Scalpers are not providing any service, scalpers are for personal gain.
You know what, i think we both understand each other and just disagree.
Like the @ecoinstar guy said, the only way to close the spread gap is increasing liquidity.
Low volume markets are the same as any other markets. And if done right, these pennies can be thousands.
And again, it's part of the game.
PS: Spread trade, scalpers, and arbitrage are totally different things.
I don't think low volume markets are the same as high volume markets. Any investment done right will make money i guess so pennies are fractions of a penny, in this case, will make thousands but i also think someone that has the skills are bot to do that would set there sights a little higher.
PS - Eco and the new guy play the spread and i do sports betting arbitrage, it would be pretty hard to arb trade a token that's only listed on 1 exchange. I'm not super savvy but I'm aware they are different methods. Maybe that PS was not directed at me.
They are the same as in "the rules are the same". The difference is mostly about liquidity, so their prices will move easily, therefore are easier to manipulate. It sucks, but at least in cryptocurrencies there is little that can be done because there is no regulations.
Yes, the PS was actually to @ecoinstar (forgot to tag him). The way he wrote it seems like it's all the same thing. If anyone else reading this still have doubts:
Spread trade - Act on high spread markets, looking for profits due to the buy and sell order prices.
Arbitrage - Look for profit on the difference between prices of different markets (buy in one and sell on the other at the same time). They don't exaclt provide liquidity, because they act on the market taker side, because they need to move fast. So they actutally remove liquidity
Scalper - Looking for profits due to small price movements during the day. They go in and out of a trade really fast, and usually only act on markets that allow margin trades (leverage).
Thank you for contributing! I understood scalpers in a derogatory term sometimes used for the whole shebang, but I appreciate you differenciating.
I arbitraged his steem and steemp prices a while back and made him mad, haven't touched spi much since except to sell my mining rewards paid in spi. @spinvest seems to have problems with others now? and as I mentioned would love to see this type of project succeed, including his.
It great that it is so open to discuss these topics. Perhaps foregoing some potential growth and providing more extreme liquidity will work out, I watch attentively.
That includes you as far as I'm concerned or at least the voting members. Decentralisation is bandied around to allow all sorts or shitty behaviour. Write it in the constitution (if there even is one) that such behaviours not allowed. Do what you need to do. I thought this was a club of people who were supporting each other, not taking advantage. But then again I thought that when I joined Steemit and quickly learned otherwise.
I'm only a small player but this behaviour has already affected my own. As in I missed a weekly buy because I started to question whether or not this was going to be any different than the fiat world. And if it isn't, then what's the point?
I'm glad you felt better after your private rant and made post. Getting frustrated about what other people do and stewing in it is a sure way to misery. 😂
Thanks for all the effort you put in! 😍
What constitution? This asset is being traded on a free open market. Anyone can participate on the market game.
And in the market game, those that see the opportunities are usually the winners.
That's why I said "(if there even is one)". I assumed there wouldn't be. 😂
"even if there is/was one"
Should have had written like that. I got a bit confused. My bad.
Even though it effects me directly in terms of my investment growth I do love a good loophole. If someone is clever enough to figure it out then kudos to them and it's down to the other party to counter act it.
Would it not have been easier not to sell tokens to the person which you were aware of for some time?
Going forward why not just sell all tokens via steem engine and not directly as majority buy on steem-engine and then closes the exploitation
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This would also completely close one possible arbitrage potential, but not necessarily the
scalpersspread traders. His proposed 99.99 buy wall does the trick, but the reason projects don't do that is that's the money that's SUPPOSED to be doing the work of being invested and growing.100% correct, so you know my pain to have to do this. Like I've said before, I've been waiting on this :'(
A 0.9999 buy back wall fixes this straight away. Maintaining that is the trick. Maybe rewarding members that participate with bonus tokens (or some new as yet unannounced, unofficial, suggestion only, admin reward token :-) ).
Yep, that's the tricky part, lol. I think having an SMT that's not listed on any exchange would fix this as well but i don't that idea, lmafo
Was talking to underground about a reward token the other day. Great minds my friend.
Don't want to sound like an asshole here, but i don't see another way:
Are you mad because a trader saw an oportunity on a free and open market to profit from the spread? I am not familiar with what this project is about or how it works, but once you put an asset to be traded openly in a free market, well... thing like this will alway happen.
Good traders always see these oportunities, and they will always take advantage of what is called "market imperfections".
So, instead of blaming the guy that is profiting from this opportunity, just focus on adjusting your distribution model.
I'm not mad because someone sees the opportunity and takes advantage, I'm mad because of who the person is.
Long story short, Steem-engine is not ideal for SPinvests model and if i could remove the tokens from the exchange i would.
i will take a look at your model, see if i can come up with some other idea, but what about use another token platform? there is a lot of alternatives, to create a token that might offer some market options...
For example, i remember that in the Waves DEX, you can set some rules about how much can be traded, or how long an order is allowed to be on the book.
Not sure if it would help, but...
The token is set up for steem so wouldn't work anywhere else. I think it's a matter of adjusting the framework or coming to some kind of understanding.
I can see both sides of the story and they are both right so it's a bit of a shitter
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Can you explain further? Who is it and what does that mean?
It's not you.
People have been trading SPI tokens from day 1, small volumes and by people, i have never heard of. When i see a confirmed member trading, it boils my blood because that member most likely knows that they are cutting off SPinvest's main growth source to make themselves a few STEEM. Maybe they are not aware and think it makes no difference.
From my point of view as the founder and admin, i guess. I see it like this, for example, someone every week buys's 1000 tokens at 0.955 and resells the same 1000 tokens for 0.995 to make a 40 STEEM profit for the week. Good for that person but your savvy enough to understand that SPinvest will have issued 1000 tokens less that week because the trader has undercut SPinvests selling price. Does sound like a person you what to be a confirmed member? Someone that will take a 2000 STEEM profit over a year but sort get in the way of SPinvest issuing 50,000 new tokens and adding them into circulation as a consequence.
Ballpark numbers
A trader buys and flips 1000 SPI tokens a week for 1 year and makes a 2080 STEEM profit.
SPinvest loses out on issuing 52,000 new tokens which are worth 10,400 in earnings at 20%. If there are 90,000 tokens issued now and we add 52,000 we get roughly 140,000. We can work that the confirmed member trader has cost every other token holder 0.07 STEEM of potential growth for each token they hold. Someone with a decent holding of say 500 SPI tokens stands to lose 35 STEEM of potential growth. If it is a trader i've never heard of off, what can i do cause i know most likely this is just a random person that has spotted the spread and is making a few STEEM. It's different when its someone that has been buying tokens for months and actively reads the posts are someone that is a confirmed member. I understand why people do it, i am proud to say i have been banned/limited are locked out of well over 100 different bookmakers from my arb betting. Screwing over bookies who depend on addicts is one thing and screwing over fellow token holders is another. That's not a jab at you, that's my view.
I'm not trying to be a dick are awkward but i have almost $14,000 of other people's money to protect and i have put in too many fooking hours to let the project go sideways in terms of the total fund value. 100,000 tokens is not the target, its 1 million so it's pedal to the metal and things this like to speedbumps. I have always been aware that SE is not the best place for SPinvest format but there are no other options until SMT's are released. There will be some trial and error but a solution will be found in the end.
I would not have written a reply like this for everyone but i know that you will read it. Shit now i gotta go and write today's post.
STEEM ON!!