A call...especially to the big stakeholders who have voted the return proposal...

in #steem11 months ago (edited)

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On the 27th of August, along with the changes that HF 21 / 22 brought regarding author / curation rewards, SPS worker proposals were also introduced to us. I am pretty sure that everyone is familiar with this system and the way it works after all these months so I don't think that I need to delve further into that.

So, the magician himself, aka Gandalf, aka @gtg came up with an excellent idea. And that is the return proposal

Every single member of the Steem community may submit their proposal and it is up to the rest of us all to either support it if it is for the greater good of the ecosystem or...ignore it, since there is no "disagreement / downvote" choice, and according to the total amount of SP this proposal will raise, the creator will either receive the requested funds...or not.

In order for this to happen the proposal has to be sitting above @gtg's return proposal and will continue to receive the daily / hourly funds for as long as it stays there.

Got it? Sweet...

As you can easily understand and exactly because it is a stake voting procedure, the really fat wallets and those who have massive amounts of proxied SP are the "catalysts" whether a proposal will receive funding or not.

That wouldn't be the case if each of you decided to cast their vote from time to time...yeah...I am talking to you average minnow / dolphin / orca...You have a say too ya know...so go cast your votes if you think something deserves to be funded...

Speaking of funding....

You see @gtg's proposal was a really smart move so that we can separate the wheat from the chaff, but there seems to be a an issue there...

According to the "community" not a single proposal deserves the requested funds and that's because always according to the voters, @gtg's proposal is the most valuable one. Yeah...It is proudly sitting on top spot with almost ~21 million SP. I rest assure you that this wasn't the plan...

There are a few proposals such as the one for the documentation of developers who work on Steem submitted by @inertia and also the one submitted by @yabapmatt for further development of the Keychain, you know, the tool that allows you to safely move your funds here and there...but that's just me...

This is how things look like at the moment...

2019-11-23 20_24_14-SteemWorld ~ Worker Proposals.png

155K SBD just sitting there...Maybe people are waiting for an extraordinary proposal to cast their vote...who knows...
I think it would be wise if some of the top voters would reconsider or even remove their vote from @gtg's proposal. I am pretty sure he wants that too.

2019-11-23 21_39_32-Replies to mindtrap (@mindtrap) — Steemit.png

This is the list with the top voters on the return proposal.

2019-11-23 20_24_48-SteemWorld ~ Worker Proposals.png

As you can see the 2 top voters have a massive impact and are "responsible" for more than the 50% of the overall SP collected.

My suggestion is that those who still haven't voted for any proposal, to go and check on their own if there is something worthy of their vote. There is no restriction...you can vote as many proposals as you want.

Also if you are one of the top voters of the return proposal, maybe, just maybe, you could unvote it temporary, so that good ideas / projects receive the necessary funds?

Have a good one people...

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I brought this up at SteemFest4: I'd really like the ability to weight my vote for the return proposal. Say, 50% normally and 100% when I'm grumpy.
My reasoning is that right now, my vote for the return proposal is a vote against all proposals while my votes for proposals nullify my vote against them given via approving the return propasal. So basically, I'm not voting for anything, but instead raising the bar for all proposals.
I guess I could kludge the same effect by decoupling some of my proxy accounts but that seems a weird and extra work.

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That’s interesting, although the implementation of a’downvote’ button would have been even more interesting.

You see when I feel like a proposal deserves my vote, it deserves my full vote. Not 35% of it not 67% but 100%. In different case I just ignore it.

I think the return proposal system does something very useful though. Without it, there isn't a minimum bar that proposals must cross to get funded, so I kinda get why there isn't a pure upvote/downvote system.
I do agree that a proposal gets 100% of my vote or none of it. My only exception is being able to weight a vote for the return proposal for the returns stated.

there is logic in what @eturnerx is saying. If you voted the proposal at 100% and then could vote the return proposal at say 50% .. the cumulative effect would be to push some of the proposals up. Then if you came back later and your fav proposals are not up there .. you could adjust the return proposal vote to shift the dial ... if you had enough SP.

Yep. Having significant SP (even via proxies) changes the way I think about it. I know I'm not the biggest whale, but I'm no redfish either.

Yes it’s very discouraging for anyone who has a SPS or is thinking of doing one. Kind of destroys the purpose of the system.

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I think we need better, more compelling proposals.

Right now (I guess things have shifted a bit since your post) the keychain development and consensus proposal to reduce power down time to 4 weeks (which has no budget cost attached to it) are both sitting above return.

In the past we have seen a lot of very questionable or poor proposals. Those are supposed to be below return.

I personally share your view that the documentation proposal is a good one, but ultimately it is up to the voters and voters are less convinced by that one than the others.

As far as I can tell the system is working, but proposers need to up their game. I shouldn't have to remind anyone that Steem is suffering from some very hard times economically. More funds flowing out and potentially getting sold on the market is not cost-free. Proposals to spend money need to be compelling.

I agree 100%

I was talking with a dev in a discord channel yesterday. He was searching some data that he couldn’t find and was wondering how Inertia’s proposal isn’t on top spot. How is it possible that people don’t understand the significance of this proposal...

As for the stepping up their game part. Also agree. That’s why I had voted the return proposal as well. One could submit a proposal asking funds to fix their car or even go on holiday. And with the necessary support...they may even get that...

Return proposal needs to be as high as possible. I have faith in the community that when a proposal that benefits the whole ecosystem pops up, they will support it without second thoughts

I think Dan(that guy yeah, we all have our diff about him but he did raise a good point) complained about Bitshares doing the same thing.
This post:
https://steemit.com/crypto-news/@dan/is-the-dao-going-to-be-doa
The Anti-Spending Movement section of his post.
Key parts that I think apply:

It didn’t take long for the BitShares community to realize that funding projects today would cause a short-term fall in the value of BitShares. Unable to bear the short-term paper-loss and psychological impact of a lower market cap, people started electing proxies that would vote against all spending proposals.

In my eyes the rich are just getting richer on Steemit as the little guy continues to fall behind. Anyone who invested even a penny within the last 22 months has gotten completely shafted in terms of investment. Holding the Bitcoin would have been a much better thing to do in fact, and a lot of investors are seeing this.

A token that can be created virtually out of thin air in a matter of minutes that trades for Bitcoin has obvious economic repercussions. There is a uni-directional flow of the money and Bitcoin has continually gotten beaten up as well. This has made for a nightmare scenario for investors and holders alike.

Being a true believer in this platform I have no other option but to stick it out and wait for things to turn around. In the mean time it still hurts tremendously seeing my investments wither day by day.

This massive drop from $9K BTC to where we are now is just another devastating blow to the portfolio this month. Where will the market begin to finally turn around?

Anyone who invested even a penny within the last 22 months has gotten completely shafted in terms of investment.

That goes for almost every single crypto project out there except BNB and BTC maybe...

A token that can be created virtually out of thin air in a matter of minutes that trades for Bitcoin has obvious economic repercussions.

It has to be listed somewhere first...

Being a true believer in this platform I have no other option but to stick it out and wait for things to turn around. In the mean time it still hurts tremendously seeing my investments wither day by day.

I totally feel you mate, and we are all in the same boat here but remember...$$$ only matter when you cash out...

Where will the market begin to finally turn around?

When we least expect it...just like it happened in December 2017...did anyone see that coming? Nope...Yet it happened...and it will happen again. What is more important though is that Steem can create a "floor"... not at 0.12$ but at 0.80$ or 1$...the rest will follow...like the domino effect

The entire trend in 2017 happened because of Bitcoin's futures, Ethereum's ICO craze and the insane BTC ponzi scheme Bitconnect.

All three combined fueled the crypto fire and they all collapsed around the same time as people started shorting the market, dumping physical BTC, and getting rid of tokens as fast as possible to reclaim profits.

I got burned big time in 2018 because of the bear market but I also still got out in the profit zone thankfully.

I got burned big time in 2018 because of the bear market but I also still got out in the profit zone thankfully.

Now that's a good thing!

You see, since we all want Steem to succeed big time and more or less all of us are invested in Steem...we need to promote it the best way we can.

If your Steem worth shit so does mine...and everyone else's

Not just are the proposals right now not getting funded but probably more importantly who is gonna create better proposals and submit them in this environment? We will see less submissions for a while... but some day sps will likely work again

That🖕🏿

Are we at least having a good Christmas party?

🤗

@mindtrap, This Information is appreciable. Definitely Steemians should understand the importance of Proposals. In my opinion we have to hold the patience too because, i think that majority of Steemians are not aware of Proposals. Stay blessed.

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Thanks for the reminder @mindtrap, I just went there and made a review of my own votes, and I found some that I thought worthy, have an awesome weekend.

Have an awesome weekend too mate!

👍😀

The SPS is like a clown and another fail project... ;)

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I think that when things balance it will be a really good tool actually...

It will not. Look at the progress of BTS. None.

You can’t really blame SPS right now. Just a handful of proposals received some funds and only for a while.

There are some proposals such as the development of keychain which need to work absolutely perfect. We are talking for our funds after all...

Have you ever considered how safe we really are in a possible serious attack?

It's not SPS, it's people.
I'm here almost from the start and I know very well how steemit works. Proof of stake, right?
BTW, did you noticed that most of the projects, development, and proposals that are not from Murica don't get much support or delegations?

Ah a voice of reason.

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Does this mean Portland steemit meetups get funding? How about the steemit 420 party 3rd party?

Amazed at the fall of steemit and seeing so many people freak. It's driven away huge amounts of people and the content.

Maybe one day we can continue growing and stop bleeding users.

I've stacked and grown and spread votes to grow this platform. I'm hopeful that things change and get fixed. Steemit had much to offer.


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Really now? Your opinion about the article maybe?

I don't have enough of a stake to make any difference. However, I like the return proposal because it makes the proposal system more challenging. That being said. There are too many votes for it right now.

I don't have enough of a stake to make any difference.

True, yet if every minnow dolphin etc cast their votes, results might look differently...

Thx for reminding me about the return proposal. I have been kind of critical of the current proposals we have as i dont see them being nearly worth it in the market we have right now. Most are extremely unreasonable in their funding amounts.
We need more compelling proposals. Simple as that.
Not stuff like, Keychain, blacklist, Steemconnect maintenance that would cost tens of thousands of dollars worth of SBD.

I would be happy if there were something akin to a downvote button for proposals but for now i will use my vests to vote for the return proposal.

Inertia's documentation proposal is a good one. Trust me...

Steem is like walking into a library with 10000 books while you are searching that one book your gf told you to borrow...only they aren't categorized...

Must for every dev...