Welcome to the Blockchain, Now Leave...
I had a recent situation where I'd convinced a blogger to join us and after taking a look, one little thing scared him away. Just thinking out loud here, but if it were up to me, I would remove the downvote option completely. There are way too many little "Mini Hitler's" running around looking for any reason to downvote someone.
I would replace the downvote option, with a "Do Not Upvote" choice instead. It would look something like this:
Do Not Upvote:
- 3 Days
- 7 Days
- 30 Days
- 60 Days
- 90 Days
- Until Further Notice
Once you make your selection, there would be a little box labeled "Reasons" where you could send a short message stating why. This would give the person a heads-up on why he lost the upvote and an opportunity for corrective action. This would also prevent them from getting your upvote in case they're on a curation trail that you're following.
This way, we avoid the negative image of the platform shown to new people after they join.
Recently, someone has started downvoting every post I make as well as some other veteran bloggers posts. I don't know who the person is and no reason was given. The vote is small, so maybe it's a new person on a power trip, who knows?
But it's the effect it has as I'm about to show you.
So, I was trying to get a friend to join LeoFinance or Hive as a blogger. I'm showing him one of my posts, when he says "What's that little cracked heart?" I was surprised as I consider myself a good Hivean and am a responsible content creator. Turns out it was a downvote. I looked for a reason in the comments; none. So here I am trying to recruit someone away from legacy social media and all of the deplatforming, shadow banning and censorship involved, but now I had to explain downvoting to him.
He's like: "So I'm supposed to come over here, work hard producing great content, only to have some random guy come in and vote it all away?" "You want me to leave social media for this?"
That's it. We lost him...
I get what some of you are trying to do. Some dude comes in with a copy-paste article he lifted online and gets $50 in post rewards. "If we remove the downvote option, how do we stop people like that?" you may ask, and I have an answer. I call it the Shadow Downvote. What I'm concerned with is the appearance of public downvoting and cracked hearts strewn all over the platform and the effect this has on good bloggers who join us.
The Shadow Downvote works just like the regular one, but it would be limited to users of rank 70 or above, since I'm level 67, even I couldn't use it. It would have the same “Reasons” message box available as the “Do Not Upvote” choice does. This way, only people who've been around for awhile and have some "skin in the game' will be able to Shadow Downvote. This would prevent some newbie from opening up an account just to harass people.
Tone is everything
So, you find somebody who's ripped off someone's content and you want to reduce his rewards. Select "Shadow Downvote" choose your percentage, and boom! you're done. No cracked heart to scare away new members and since you're a veteran, you have the experience and knowledge to vote that crap out of here!
If a system like this existed when I was introducing my friend to our platform, we'd be welcoming a brand-new Cub to the Pride.
We put out all of this effort to get bloggers to leave legacy social media and join us on the blockchain, only to frighten them away at the very start. There has to be a better way and there is. So to recap. Under level 70, you have the "Do Not Upvote" option. 70 and above, you have that as well as the Shadow Downvote" option. The point is to take corrective action against those abusing the system, while offering a positive environment for great content creators to call home. What do you think?
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Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
That is frustrating. I will be looking through the history of people I support and see what they are downvoting. You got me with "Welcome to the blockchain, Now Leave!"
Shared on Leo and ProofOfBrain.
You know, I'd completely forgotten about those little cracked hearts that show up with a downvote on LeoFinance, but my friend saw them immediatly. They were everywhere. On 6 out of my last 10 posts and even on much-respected veterans over level 80. They didn't know who it was and I wasn't going to massage their ego to find out.
It was so disheartening as I'd worked on my friend to bring him over and as if on cue, someone began spraying cracked hearts all over the platform. Thank you for your support and hopefully we can begin a better way to onboard new content creators.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Excellent answer.
I have seen publications with excellent content and you earn your positive balance and other whales arrive that I have never seen and give them a negative vote and eliminate the positive balance.
This was someone brand new at level 25. I've been here four years in July and aside from the downvoting gang on that other blockchain, I don't usually get downvotes as I'm known as a good content creator.
The feeling was that this is a new person showing off, but it couldn't have come at a worse time. Shadow Downvote would stop new people from doing that, while allowing principled veterans to clean up the platform for the rest of us.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Those are some interesting thoughts. I get what you are saying, but I also think people need to have a little thicker skin. I agree that some people abuse the system, but like you said, in your case the downvote was relatively small, so what is the harm really. The first time I got a down vote I was pretty pissed. Then I just got used to it. If it severely impacts your rewards, that is another story, but if it is just some little gnat downvote, I just ignore it. It's too bad that we lost a potential newcomer though. Hopefully they think it over and change their mind.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
It wasn't the effect on me that I was concerned about, but how it made the platform look to new people. This guy influences a lot of people, so the person spewing those hearts, did it at the worst possible time.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Do they use Reddit at all? Just curious.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
I'm not much of a Reddit user myself, so it's not something I don't think I've ever had a reason to ask about.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Fair enough. I just know there is a downvote feature in there so if they can handle that, they should be able to handle it hear. I'm not trying to argue with you, I get what you are saying, but I don't think downvotes are going anywhere on here. I think the general consensus among the community is that the benefits outweigh the drawbacks. I was simply trying to see if there was a way to reason with the person.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
I hear exactly what you're saying and I've been around long enough that I don't expect anything to change either. I just wanted to get these thoughts out before I stepped out for the day and I hope you're having an awesome one! :)
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Yeah, just about quitting time so it is about to get even better. 68 degrees out too. Gonna be a nice evening. Take care!
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
I got downvotes and I don't care, worse I found the insults one had because of downvotes I did on Steem. Each of his comments contained at least one insult, including son of a bitch.
I find that much worse and that something like that is not even punishable with downvotes according to etiquette.
Some people abuse the system...now that is a slight understatement...
https://peakd.com/hive-189111/@lols/was-this-the-biggest-downvote-in-the-history-of-hive
I have been downvoted without reasons in the past, I feel there should be a more approachable way to do it especially if it turned out not to be justifiable
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
That's why I think keeping it at level 70 and above, would at least ensure that we don't have newbies running around voting down everything they see. This time it cost us somebody who could have brought real value to the blockchain.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Eventually newbie education, might also be made a priority because it's also part of knowing what and what not to do.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Would be good to know which post that was. So everyone could get an idea if the content was really good or if the downvote was justified.
I am still relatively new here and have already given downvotes and was abused for it. One user has insulted me in each of his comments and there were dozens. There were insults like son of a bitch.
Just because he thinks that downvotes are only allowed for plagiarism and spam.
There are no rules only recommendations. And in my opinion everyone has the right to give downvotes as well as upvotes.
Sure you could make changes to the system, but how? No matter how, there would be ways to undermine it. And why not change the upvotes right away? Why is an upvote of a whale worth more? Just because he is here for a long time or has invested?
Maybe you have to question the whole system?
But an idea I would have, how would it be with a coupling of the value with the number of votes. 1000 upvotes should always have more weight than 1 downvote. But here there would be the problem of bots again, would the upvotes have to have a minimum?
Nothing is perfect. Unfortunately.
By the way, what did he lose? If he had posted the same content on Facebook, he wouldn't have earned anything there either.
I have less of a problem with downvotes than with massive insults, lies and slander.
Did he only post one post? Did he try again and again and again?
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
deutsch
Wäre gut zu wissen welcher Beitrag das war. So könnte sich jeder ein Bild von machen ob der Content wirklich gut war oder der Downvote gerechtfertigt war.
Ich bin noch relativ neu hier und habe schon Downvotes gegeben und wurde dafür derbe beschimpft. Ein User hat mich in jedem seiner Kommentare beleidigt und es waren dutzende. Dabei waren Beleidigungen wie z.B. Hurensohn.
Nur weil er der Meinung ist, das Downvotes nur bei Plagiaten und Spam erlaubt sind.
Es gibt keine Regeln nur Empfehlungen. Und meiner Meinung nach hat jeder das Recht Downvotes zu geben wie auch upvotes.
Klar könnte man Änderungen an dem System vornehmen, aber wie? Egal wie, es gäbe Möglichkeiten es auszuhebeln. Und wieso dann nicht gleich an den Upvotes was ändern? Wieso ist ein Upvote eines Wales mehr Wert? Nur weil er lange hier dabei ist oder Investiert hat?
Muss man vielleicht das ganze System hinterfragen!?
Aber eine Idee hätte ich, wie wäre es mit einer Kopplung des Wertes mit der Anzahl der Votes. 1000 Upvotes sollten immer mehr Gewicht haben als 1 Downvote. Aber hier gäbe es dann wieder das Problem von Bots, müssten die Upvotes ein Minimum haben?
Nichts ist Perfect. Leider.
Übrigens, was hat er verloren? Wenn er den gleichen Content bei Facebook gepostet hätte, hätte er doch da auch nichts verdient.
Ich habe mit Downvotes weniger das Problem als mit massiven Beleidigungen, Lügen und Verleumdungen.
Hat er nur einen Beitrag gepostet? Hat er es noch mal versucht und noch mal und noch mal?
No, this was a person I was showing Hive and Leofinance to and was trying to get him to join, when he saw all of the cracked hearts on the front page and on my posts.
I don't actually expect anything to change as a result of this post as I've been here awhile and have seen that we have the unique ability to shoot ourselves in the foot, time and time again. Just thinking out loud.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
It seems the person only came because of the possibility to earn money? Maybe this is not the reason why someone should come here.
So the person didn't tried it again?
That's not the way I'd look at it. More like you spend all day building something beautiful and then someone comes along and devalues your work. The old saying "You don't get a second chance to make a first impression" comes to mind.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
If you only take the first impression, than you may miss something. Some times it is better to have a second, third or fourth look 🤔
Which post was it?
I gotta disagree with the part where u think it’s ok to down vote original non spam posts. It is indeed meant for fraud and spam
Not just personally not loving the post
So you think hate insulting misanthropy pedophile content and many more should not be downvoted?
Only fraud and spam?
If i make a post about someone and i say he is an ashole and many more insulting this would be ok?
If i make a posting and write lies which can hurt someone.
...
I think it’s pretty obvious that’s not what she said at all.
Exactly
The first u mention is criminal
The other at bottom is slender.
Where the hell did she say anything u claim?
Obviously I wasn’t
But this account clearly isn’t trying to
Have a serious conversation
I can defend myself thank you weed boy 😜
So ur just gonna wrongly put ur assumptions on me?
No obviously I’m not saying to not downvote this kind of content
But ya know that clearly
I always wandered what the broken heart was, thank you for explaining @evernoticethat .have an awesome day.
Nice to meet you and I hope you never see one! I'm sure you're enjoying the warm weather down there, as it feels almost like winter up here! :)
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
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Downvote is a positive action. It keeps inflation down.
Shadow Downvote makes zero sense. If you are the great 70+ guru, your downvote scares noone, the newbie gets a chance to learn from your wisdom.
Removing DV option from people under 70 might make sense if do not mind being condescending (proposing a number above your score makes no difference - the newcomer cannot look you up).
Nothing wrong with having frontends that do not show DVs but my guess is your friend has little too short attention span.
https://peakd.com/proofofbrain/@suss/a-gang-of-misfits
Powerful accounts are setting up meaningless little downvote accounts to constantly hand out downvotes to non-approved content creators. The purpose of these endless annoying downvotes is twofold - to dish out little micro doses of negativity, and to get people used to constantly seeing that fucking broken heart icon on all their posts.
I really hope that's not true as I want this place to thrive and attract the masses. Hive and LeoFinance should be the go-to place on the blockchain for those escaping the deplatforming on traditional social media.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
I don't know what the big deal is, people are hateful on other platforms, too, but on them there is nobody watching to see that they don't become too abusive.
Here folks will speak up for you.
If you get downvoted, and don't see an obvious reason, get in the downvote discord and ask.
If we don't downvote the 'abuse' we can the coins all go to those maximizing their take.
At some point that wrecks the chain, less so now that we have a 5 year track record, but certainly when there was less hive to go around.
If we don't start downvoting the highest earners pretty soon the distribution will be top heavy and the crab bucket will have failed.
I'd flip that around. If you're going to downvote someone, how's about leaving them a reason why in the comments, instead of expecting a new user to hunt around for it?
I'm not against downvoting actual abuse, but people doing it for no reason or just for laughs.
Shadow Downvote is a great idea, as it removes all of those cracked hearts, so that we don't scare away good content creators who intend to actually buy the HIVE or LEO token. You can have your cake and eat it too. We can have the downvote, just remove the cracked hearts and downvote away.
I think we all want the same thing. A strong platform and a growing userbase and token price. I support whatever will get us there, even if it includes the downvote.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
I think we need a little more heart out of our creators, but that is just me.
I'm sorry your friend wasn't interested in finding out if s/he could make it here.
We needed their complaints to keep us on the right track.
Downvotes are there to stop the greedy from taking from all of us.
Doesn't always have to be against greedy either, it's fairly simple to judge certain posts or accounts for being overrewarded or farming autovotes on low effort content. Plenty of good uses for downvotes right there.
This post seems a tad overrewarded as well for the downvote fearmongering and saying users decided not to test out hive because someone could downvote them to 0 for "no reason". Feels like instead of looking for a reason why these random downvotes have been happening from sunsetjesus OP could've just brushed it off and mentioned that if malicious/unfair downvotes do happen there are many users who can step in and counter them. I guess that would defeat the narrative OP wanted to go with here.
It is proving difficult to overcome the downvote bias of the folks coming here, they mostly seem sensitive to their feels.
I mean, this is the internet, after all.
I prefer a community of folks that stand their ground rather than surrender to feels and appeal to authority.
So, our system seems to be working just fine.
Over rewarded? That’s where this platform is now? Downvoting because a award is large and maybe 2 large? That’s so not what it was meant for. If it’s a original good post and someone’s downvoting for that reason I think we should all call that out as BS and stand against it.
That's your right, counter the downvotes if you feel the rewards aren't high enough. You have 4x more upvotes than downvote mana.
Agreed
A couple of weeks ago i started getting a downvote to every single post I make on all sorts of topics, so it's not my content at all. It's some fool just downvoting all my work and that of some others daily regardless of content or topic just because of something else. I don't know what as they never say, so it's stupidity or envy. Someone is downvoting loads of people daily with zero or 0.002 downvote, just to be an ass. If only we knew the logic of it.
We don't want to mention usernames in case it's being done for attention. So I'd ask you to remove the name so we don't contribute to that, thanks.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Will do, I totally understand.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Hello @done, I answer your question this way. I do not share my rewards with anyone in exchange for votes or support. The votes I have I have earned by posting almost every day for over 1 year and a half.
I mean no offense to your friend, but seriously, people who can't handle downvotes should stay off the whole internet.
@acidyo's post may address your doubts:
https://hive.blog/hive-196233/@acidyo/another-post-about-beneficiary-usage
''so maybe it's a new person on a power trip, who knows?'' - This is way too funny 😂 😂😂
As for the ''Shadow Downvote'', wouldn't be easier that people just don't vote for what they don't appreciate? I mean...I think we should distinguish between what is good content or not. On other platforms, you can just share another's person's post without any problem..and sometimes it is even inspiring 😁 ...I guess we are staying too much on this thing with plagiarism and other shits...it is not like there is an academic committee around here...so I don't see the point that much... some votes are sometimes given with regards to a certain idea or some ideas in a text...some sort of diagonal reading. I prefer that things stay more decentralised really.
Blurt is way ahead of you …. They removed to Downvote button a year ago and the community is flourishing … everyone is happy, kind and having a very good time. https://Blurt.blog